Terrorist attack at Boston Marathon

[RivkahChaya]

Typically, a person is read their rights immediately upon being arrested, the first of which is the right to remain silent. A person has the right against self-incrimination, and that is why people who have been arrested have the right to remain silent, and are cautioned that anything they say may be used as evidence.

When someone is arrested in a situation where there may be lives in danger, in this case, more bombs planted, and still able to go off in public places, suspects are told they are about to be arrested, but then are asked about very specific things they would incriminate them, had they already been read their rights, but public safety is considered more important than gathering evidence, at that point. Then, the suspect is read his rights. If he confesses after that, that confession is admissible in court.

You can see how, if he were question under that protocol, and admitted that there were explosives, say, in the Boston subway stop nearest to the marathon finish, and he said that before he was read his rights, it would be very important to keep that out of the papers, because if it because public, he couldn't possibly get a fair trial.

However, because we have a free press, it isn't possible to forbid newspapers from publishing the information, if they have it. All that can be done is for investigators to make every effort not to let reporters get the information.

RE: speech and vocal cord damage. He could have nerve damage, or muscle damage that could permanently impair his speech, even if his vocal folds were undamaged.

[Phil H]

A sad statement on society and modern democracy, I suppose.

Phil

[Errata]

...what those answers are has not been released

Kensei - your words suggest that you anticipate that what he says can and should be made public at once.

I find that surprising. But perhaps i have misunderstood you.

Surely

a) security - not alerting any accomplices to what the authorities know; and

b) avoidance of prejudice to any trial;

would suggest that what he says could be some time before it emerges into the public domain.

While the immediate answers may be of extreme importance to the security authorities; I would assume that they will be of little judicial importance unless he has been read his rights/charged; and/or has legal representation.

Or are things different in the US?

Phil

Things are a little different here, though not necessarily on any official level. We typically get motive for these things within three to five days. Now usually it's because the suspect is a crazy Elvis impersonator who has paranoid delusions, such as in the Ricin case. But in other cases, I'm pretty sure it's either a tactic, or someone in the know is so proud of the fact that he is in the know that he talks to a reporter. If there are others involved, 3 days is about what it takes to figure out where they are, and make an attempt to get them into custody. If they can't find them, releasing the news that the suspect in custody has told on his buddies is typically an excellent way to flush these guys out, since they will need to move to avoid capture. So the news often gets used as a police tool, as long as no one overtly lies.

With these kind of cases, the jury pool is tainted, and will be no matter where he goes. His lawyer may even ask for the judge to rule instead of impaneling a jury. I mean, nobody didn't have an opinion on Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh, or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. You make do. Impartial juries are not always there to be had.

[kensei]

No Phil, I was just giving a quick summary of what the news reports stated. It is as I would have expected at this point in the investigation.

[Phil H]

...what those answers are has not been released

Kensei - your words suggest that you anticipate that what he says can and should be made public at once.

I find that surprising. But perhaps i have misunderstood you.

Surely

a) security - not alerting any accomplices to what the authorities know; and

b) avoidance of prejudice to any trial;

would suggest that what he says could be some time before it emerges into the public domain.

While the immediate answers may be of extreme importance to the security authorities; I would assume that they will be of little judicial importance unless he has been read his rights/charged; and/or has legal representation.

Or are things different in the US?

Phil

[kensei]

worst case scenario, he can always write his answers.

Latest news I heard is that that is exactly what he is doing, but what those answers are has not been released.

[Beowulf]

Reminds me of the Leopold-Loeb case, where they said apart they wouldn't have done it but together they made a composite personality.

[Archaic]

Slate article: 'Is Boston Like Columbine?'

Just came across a thought-provoking article on Slate.com.

It discusses the aspect of the case that myself and others have been wondering about- the psychology of the relationship between the older brother and the younger brother as "the leader and the follower".

The title is 'Is Boston Like Columbine?'

Some of the comments are interesting too.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2013/04/tsarnaevs_and_columbine_were_dzhokhar_and_tamerlan_like_dylan_klebold_and.html

Archaic

[Errata]

worst case scenario, he can always write his answers.

[Beowulf]

Hi Beowulf.

Yes, that's what all the news reports say right now.

The question is whether his inability to speak is temporary or permanent, and from the facts I've heard I believe it is the former.

Best regards,
Archaic

I guess he's awake and answering questions right now, according to Piers Morgan.

[Archaic]

Hi Beowulf.

Yes, that's what all the news reports say right now.

The question is whether his inability to speak is temporary or permanent, and from the facts I've heard I believe it is the former.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Beowulf]

I can't imagine with a hole in his throat from a bullet wound he wouldn't be on a ventilator and sedated (they always sedate you on a vent so you don't fight the machine). After all the fluids draining down the throat would tend to go into the lungs.

I'm thinking this guy has no ability to talk or communicate at all right now.

[Archaic]

He carried it around. He ran his brother over with a car. He shot at police. He knew what was going down. Doesn't mean he liked it. Afterwards, he spoke with friends as if nothing had happened. Definitely knew.

Mike

Absolutely agree with you Mike.

Thanks everyone for the comments. It's interesting in that in the Chechen/Caucasus culture the eldest brother has such stature. I remember reading the words of a school sports coach who said Dzhokar absolutely idolized his big brother and would watch him train for his boxing matches.

I'm trying to understand the throat wound. I could see Dzhokar attempting to commit suicide and failing to aim properly if semi-conscious, but what seems to contradict that supposition is the fact that there is a photo of Dzhokar climbing out of the boat by himself to surrender. If he was capable of doing that, I would think he was capable of shooting himself, even if he had missed the first time and had to pull the trigger again.

We don't know quite where the throat wound is, and I agree with Kensei that the suspect could conceivably have been shot in his open mouth during the firefight. Maybe he was yelling or something; weird wounds happen in gunfights .

Some news sources say Tsarnaev may never be able to talk due to the wound; I doubt that, as human vocal cords are located in the front right of the throat area. (That's why surgeons performing disk surgeries etc go in on the left side of throat.) Even if he couldn't talk for a while until his injuries healed, he could communicate in other ways, such as by writing and shaking his head Yes or No.

There are news articles that say they "don't know if the photo shows suspect climbing in or out of the boat". Obviously it's the latter, as the shrink wrap that had covered the boat is shown all torn open, damage that was caused by the robotic arm of the special armored police vehicle. No one witnessed him climb into the boat thus no one filmed it; he had been in there for quite some time before the homeowner noticed that the cover was slightly disturbed and saw bloodstains.

I still can't believe the homeowner went over and actually looked inside the boat cover himself before calling the police; that was pretty crazy considering that his neighborhood had been in lockdown all day while police searched for the suspect. Thank God he didn't become another casualty!

Best regards,
Archaic

[Beowulf]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/21/marathon-bombing-suspect-outbursts-had-disturbed-cambridge-mosque-goers/LkZnWkXgaRZcMDUdE6V9jM/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw

[Beowulf]

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130420/NEWS/130429995

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844

The hive is broken into.