U.S. Capitol Placed on Lockdown as Election Protests Grow Violent

[Wickerman]

I actually hope he does pardon himself, I suspect he already has, it' just not been made public yet.
We will only know if he has when he is charged with a federal crime, the question needs to be addressed. The Justice Department needs to charge Trump to force the question. The common sense conclusion, that no president can write himself a blank cheque to wash away all crimes, needs to be written into law.

[Wickerman]

Here's a question:
Does Washington DC have the equivalent of States Rights?

We all know that if Trump tries to pardon himself it is only applicable to Federal crimes, that if a State charges him the pardon is ineffective, he cannot hide behind it.
However, as the crimes of insurrection occurred in Washington DC, which is not a state, does the federal statute apply there, meaning is he protected by the federal pardon in Washington DC?

[rjpalmer]

Forget the 'experience needed' clause, an increasing number of businesses require their CEOs to undergo a psychological examination.

Back in 2016, there were dozens of psychiatrists, former Trump Organization officers, the ''Art of the Deal" ghostwriter, even Trump family members, who were warning that this dude was a malignant narcissist and full-blown psychopath.

Half the electorate didn't' listen; as long as the carnival barker told them what they wanted to hear, it was all "fake news."

And now and it is increasingly obvious that a huge swath of the population has ZERO ability to recognize either an opportunistic grifter or a sociopath. I guess that's what keeps the televangelists in business.

[Wickerman]

A curious observation about the profession politician.

Trump did not have any experience in politics before he became head politician,the president.So basically it uses the ad "Help Wanted No Experience Required ".That's what the Republicans used.So we had a politician doing job training in the White House in 2016.
But if it was a "higher" profession like head truck driver,head barber or head cook "at least 2-5 years Experience Required",don't even come if none.

The profession should be regulated like lawyers with the state bar?

I've said before, to run for President, I believe it must be required that any candidate has held elected office at least like Mayor or Governor. At least has experienced what is necessary to commit to the public good and, have earned a degree of public trust.
The altruistic belief that anyone should be able to run for the office of President still holds true, but this position requires a candidate with more credentials than a functioning pulse.

[Varqm]

A curious observation about the profession politician.

Trump did not have any experience in politics before he became head politician,the president.So basically it uses the ad "Help Wanted No Experience Required ".That's what the Republicans used.So we had a politician doing job training in the White House in 2016.
But if it was a "higher" profession like head truck driver,head barber or head cook "at least 2-5 years Experience Required",don't even come if none.

The profession should be regulated like lawyers with the state bar?

[Varqm]

This is just so incredibly unbelievable.
McConnell and his Republican party are largely responsible for this mess, they are the one's who enabled Trump. They have said nothing for 4 years while he runs wild, some have even joined in and encouraged him.

Republicans have knowingly lied to the press & public on Trumps behalf, and yet, this despicable outfit are preferring to stand back and let the Democrats clean up the s**t they have created. This is a Republican problem, it is their party that is fractured and crumbling under dishonesty, deception, and outright lies, yet none of these spineless discredited pseudo politicians are prepared to fix their own dung heap.
They should loose their status as a credible political party.

Agreed.Clear.Then they wave their patriotic flags and preach about their religious ways.Awful.

[YomRippur]

I recall the GOP was considering reaching out more to Latinos and blacks in the 2016 campaigns due to changes of demographics in the country. Then Trump happened and put the kibosh on that. They may have to reach out again because the Trump base has shown to be too toxic. I mean, a poll showed 45% of Republicans (in the population, not just in Congress) supported the Capitol demonstrators, and 43% opposed. They can't have such a destruction base, whom the GOP has to keep appeasing in order to stay in office, without causing destruction in the party too.

[Wickerman]

This is just so incredibly unbelievable.
McConnell and his Republican party are largely responsible for this mess, they are the one's who enabled Trump. They have said nothing for 4 years while he runs wild, some have even joined in and encouraged him.

Republicans have knowingly lied to the press & public on Trumps behalf, and yet, this despicable outfit are preferring to stand back and let the Democrats clean up the s**t they have created. This is a Republican problem, it is their party that is fractured and crumbling under dishonesty, deception, and outright lies, yet none of these spineless discredited pseudo politicians are prepared to fix their own dung heap.
They should loose their status as a credible political party.

[YomRippur]

Sorry, but I can't get on board that train.

The philosopher Karl Popper once argued that Marxism is a pseudo-science, because it is non-falsifiable. Anything--every human conflict--can be seen as 'economic,' or a 'class struggle,' even if the facts suggest otherwise. Just as Freud simplified every human behavior to be about sex.

But not every case of civil unrest is a bread riot disguised as something else. There have been armed conflicts where two sides had little or no economic stress. There are battles in primate societies where the food source is abundant.

One of the rioters inside the capitol was married to a doctor. Was he under economic stress? Maybe, but there is no evidence for it.

I think Trumpism is about perceived status and social identity, which has an economic component, but is more elemental. Even a wealthy doctor or the son of a supreme court judge can think his identity is being challenged...even if his bank account is fine and his job secure. No one is going to riot if he thinks he may go broke 10 years from now...

But he may riot if he thinks his 'status' and cultural beliefs are being attacked by an imaginary enemy. Especially when he’s been whipped into a frenzy by a charismatic charlatan.

The man who beat the police officer to death in D.C. was radicalized by ideological demagogues. Was that economic? I don’t think so.

The FEAR of economic distress is enough for some to take drastic action. Some of their emotion may not be related to economic well-being, but it is. Regarding status, losing status would lead to losing opportunities for advancement and economic standing, some fear. Regarding religion, some fear the lack of good Christian values would lead to societal breakdown, lawlessness, crime, etc. Some fear that LGBTQ people, immigrants, or any minority groups would bring bad values, cause societal breakdown, moral breakdown, crime, property values down, "white flight," business closures, job losses, etc. I mean, you get the picture. These people may be preaching about "moral fiber" and "freedom." But when it comes down to it, all they want is their hometowns not to become another Detroit! We are not an evolved species in many fundamental and visceral ways. Most of our senses and emotions aren't that far removed from those of our cave-dwelling ancestors whose sole purpose in life was not get eaten by lions in the plains of Africa.

We used to place our ideologies above all else, even our economic well-being. E.g. pyramids were built at tremendous cost just to worship deities. That would never happen nowadays. No nations, even the most religious ones, would bankroll such enormous projects just for religious worship.

[rjpalmer]

Cultural struggles and ideologies come and go, but economic struggles always stay. And Trump's strong suit happens to be economy (at least he is perceived that way). When people fear what they own is being taken away, it is an existential threat for them (even for affluent people), and it makes them look for someone to blame. And THAT brings out the cultural strife you mentioned. The starting point is always money and economic well-being.

Sorry, but I can't get on board that train.

The philosopher Karl Popper once argued that Marxism is a pseudo-science, because it is non-falsifiable. Anything--every human conflict--can be seen as 'economic,' or a 'class struggle,' even if the facts suggest otherwise. Just as Freud simplified every human behavior to be about sex.

But not every case of civil unrest is a bread riot disguised as something else. There have been armed conflicts where two sides had little or no economic stress. There are battles in primate societies where the food source is abundant.

One of the rioters inside the capitol was married to a doctor. Was he under economic stress? Maybe, but there is no evidence for it.

I think Trumpism is about perceived status and social identity, which has an economic component, but is more elemental. Even a wealthy doctor or the son of a supreme court judge can think his identity is being challenged...even if his bank account is fine and his job secure. No one is going to riot if he thinks he may go broke 10 years from now...

But he may riot if he thinks his 'status' and cultural beliefs are being attacked by an imaginary enemy. Especially when he’s been whipped into a frenzy by a charismatic charlatan.

The man who beat the police officer to death in D.C. was radicalized by ideological demagogues. Was that economic? I don’t think so.

[YomRippur]

rjpalmer wrote:

That nut-case in the wolf costume and the walking stick is the son of a wealthy and prominent judge in Brooklyn, New York. (See link) His elevator doesn't appear to go all the way to the top floor, but he's hardly a member of an economically depressed underclass.

And one of the women arrested, who happens to be from my neck-of-the-woods, was an affluent Trump campaign lobbyist who had organized a Trump Boat Parade in Portland, Oregon.

I'm not entirely disputing your sentiments, but, in my humble opinion--and the jury is still out; we'll be analyzing this for years---Trump appealed to a more fundamental aspect of the reptilian brainstem than mere economic need; like a parasite, he noticed that Kulturkampf has been fomenting for years, egged-on by partisan "news" pundits; he took advantage of it to invade and infiltrate a major political party.

Trump Fur-Ever: Costumed Capitol Rioter Is Son Of Brooklyn Supreme Court Judge - Gothamist

Cultural struggles and ideologies come and go, but economic struggles always stay. And Trump's strong suit happens to be economy (at least he is perceived that way). When people fear what they own is being taken away, it is an existential threat for them (even for affluent people), and it makes them look for someone to blame. And THAT brings out the cultural strife you mentioned. The starting point is always money and economic well-being.

Forgot to address your first point about some of these people seemingly having good financial shape. Again, we can't based this on appearances alone. Even if you have a good job and live in a nice house, you could still run into hard times financially. This writer lives in the Hamptons and at one point he couldn't come up with $400 for an emergency. Then he read a Federal Reserve study that said that 47% Americans had been in the same boat.

[Varqm]

The joke was Afghanistan,Iran,Iraq and Libya were going to send policemen to Washington D.C to protect democracy.

[YomRippur]

That nut-case in the wolf costume and the walking stick is the son of a wealthy and prominent judge in Brooklyn, New York. (See link) His elevator doesn't appear to go all the way to the top floor, but he's hardly a member of an economically depressed underclass.

And one of the women arrested, who happens to be from my neck-of-the-woods, was an affluent Trump campaign lobbyist who had organized a Trump Boat Parade in Portland, Oregon.

I'm not entirely disputing your sentiments, but, in my humble opinion--and the jury is still out; we'll be analyzing this for years---Trump appealed to a more fundamental aspect of the reptilian brainstem than mere economic need; like a parasite, he noticed that Kulturkampf has been fomenting for years, egged-on by partisan "news" pundits; he took advantage of it to invade and infiltrate a major political party.

Trump Fur-Ever: Costumed Capitol Rioter Is Son Of Brooklyn Supreme Court Judge - Gothamist

Cultural struggles and ideologies come and go, but economic struggles always stay. And Trump's strong suit happens to be economy (at least he is perceived that way). When people fear what they own is being taken away, it is an existential threat for them (even for affluent people), and it makes them look for someone to blame. And THAT brings out the cultural strife you mentioned. The starting point is always money and economic well-being.

[DJA]

Well, we always knew he loved himself, Jon.

Reminds me of the old joke about why the Pope wears trunks in the bath - he doesn't want to look down on the unemployed.

He makka the rules,but no playa the game.

[Simon Wood]

"Go home. We love you. You're really special."

And the next day a bus came along.

"To those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country, and to those who broke the law, you will pay."