The Best Ever Trump Put-Down?

[barnflatwyngarde]

I wish I'd never started this bloody thread!

[Svensson]

I am sorry I have not responded to your post earlier. For some reason, I have not seen these post until this afternoon that is why I am behind.

You suggested in an earlier post the President said to use a disinfectant to cure the virus. He never recommended that people use household disinfectants. I do not remember him ever using the word bleach. All kinds of memes hit facebook about Clorox but the President asked the Doctors if some form of disinfectant could be used as a treatment. There is a difference between asking a question about disinfectant being used for treatment and recommending people use bleach.

I posted I do not know how much Bible knowledge the President has. I was not defending his knowledge of the Bible. You criticized the President for holding a Bible up in front of a Church. I guess you feel a person has to be a Bible Scholar to own a Bible? Just kidding I understand your point. You feel it was hypocritical for The President who you feel knows nothing about the Bible and does not live a Christian life to go to Church and hold up the Bible. First, if that was the standard all people were held to the Church's would be empty. Second, there is more to the story than the President going to Church and holding the Bible. The President walked to the Church, Bible in hand because the Church was one of the oldest churches in America, our country's founders attended the Church. it had great religious and historical significance. Rioters burned it down. The President went to the Church to show solidarity with the men who fought and died for our country and who attended the Church. He held up the Bible to show solidarity with Christians. Honestly, I do not understand why people are more outraged that President Trump held up a Bible than they are about the burning of a Church.

For me, it was about Trump's intent to stoke up the "religion vs. non-religion" conflict which has always been part of US politics. it was a stunt to blatantly shore up the religious vote which is ludicrous because he clearly does not give a toss about Religion. He just blatantly uses religion to get votes in an obvious and therefore despicable way. To be honest, this is probably one area where I actually agree with Trump. I am a hard-core atheist but I recognise that the church has a valuable social function. Here in Europe, we don't have these mega-churches that fleece their congregation out of their pension and the church almost never gets involved in politics (the current Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby might be an exception but in his case, I believe that he is coming from a humanitarian and compassionate angle, so I have no problem with it). If Trump wants my respect then he would at least be honest about the fact that he is not religious and you can still defend the rights of those who want to go to church or be a practising such-and-such. It can;t be that hard but again, he chose to lie.

If people have vandalised a church, then the authorities should work on finding the perpetrators and not use tear-gas to disperse an unrelated crowd exercising their rights to peacefully protest. And all of this was exactly timed to coincide with a photo-opportunity. Pretty lame from someone who pretends to be an alpha-male....

[celee]

You're trying to save Trump's backside by splitting hairs now. If does not matter if he was suggesting it as a cure or as a treatment. Bleach does not belong into a human body except for the purpose/intent of killing that person. A fifth-grader should know this but Trump does not have the mental capacity of a fith-grader to know this. And yes, we did listen. Very carefull. And we concluded that he hasn't got a flippin clue what he is talking about.




I do. It is exactly zero. And if you are curious to find out, watch this video. If you have ever lied as a ten-year-old, you will recognise what is going on here.

I am sorry I have not responded to your post earlier. For some reason, I have not seen these post until this afternoon that is why I am behind.

You suggested in an earlier post the President said to use a disinfectant to cure the virus. He never recommended that people use household disinfectants. I do not remember him ever using the word bleach. All kinds of memes hit facebook about Clorox but the President asked the Doctors if some form of disinfectant could be used as a treatment. There is a difference between asking a question about disinfectant being used for treatment and recommending people use bleach.

I posted I do not know how much Bible knowledge the President has. I was not defending his knowledge of the Bible. You criticized the President for holding a Bible up in front of a Church. I guess you feel a person has to be a Bible Scholar to own a Bible? Just kidding I understand your point. You feel it was hypocritical for The President who you feel knows nothing about the Bible and does not live a Christian life to go to Church and hold up the Bible. First, if that was the standard all people were held to the Church's would be empty. Second, there is more to the story than the President going to Church and holding the Bible. The President walked to the Church, Bible in hand because the Church was one of the oldest churches in America, our country's founders attended the Church. it had great religious and historical significance. Rioters burned it down. The President went to the Church to show solidarity with the men who fought and died for our country and who attended the Church. He held up the Bible to show solidarity with Christians. Honestly, I do not understand why people are more outraged that President Trump held up a Bible than they are about the burning of a Church.

I watched the video you suggested. The President claimed the Bible was personal to him and he did not want to discuss his favorite book. He later claimed "John 1" was his favorite. Did you watch the video I posted President Trump's comments on Charlottesville?

[Svensson]

As for the E.U. and I concede I am not an expert. It is my understanding that England voted twice to leave the European Union because Russia allegedly influenced the results of the first election. Could be wrong. It is also my understanding that England voted to leave the E.U. but can not officially leave until a trade deal is agreed on. I could be wrong. However, In your eagerness to prove me wrong you missed the point of my comment. My point was that the Globalists who wished to keep England in the E.U. used the same Russian interference conspiracy the Democrats used to claim Trump stole the election. I found that amusing. I believe, and I could end up being wrong, that the Globalists are trying to delay any trade deal because they want to force England back into the E.U. or at the very least make a deal that would end up leaving everything status quo. I do not follow British politics, however, I did enjoy Celebrity Big Brother, So, if a trade deal has been reached do not call me a liar. The narrative I was pushing is the Globalists pushed the idea that Russia subverted the will of Western Democracy in order to kill the populace movements in America and England.

ok, so it seems that you also misunderstood me and tbh, this is is probably also my fault because I find if difficult to address so much of what I consider as incorrect all at the same time.

Let me take a step back: The reason why I am so particular on these facts is that I think you have the wrong idea based on wrong facts. And I feel that once you have the full and correct facts, you may come to different conclusions. The UK leaving the EU is actually a prime example that I have come across many times in the past and I admit that this issue is close to driving me insane. Full disclosure, I was born in Germany, moved to England when I was still a teenager and I am right now relocating to the Netherlands. I have grown up on a diet of European freedom (my friends are English, French, German, my wife is Dutch with a English mother and my own father was French, so I and my family are basically a multinational mess but I am immensely proud of it). The reason I am relocating is that my employer has moved a lot of resources to Amsterdam due to Brexit and I see this as a professional opportunity. My views on Brexit are that it is a shame from a UK point of view and that people have been lied to about an economical case when there is none. The only case to be made in Brexit is that there is more autonomy coupled with a slightly smaller economy but Nigel Farage prefers to talk about fishing (which is 0.1% of the UK economy) and blue passports. IMO, it was essentially an emotional decision to leave the EU but they dressed it up as an economical one. Too many people believed it without looking at the actual facts.

the UK was a member of the EU for 40 years. Many professional and business relationships and laws needed to be unstitched and resolved in a controlled manner. Failure to do so would have been a failure of politicians to look after their citizens interests on either side of the English Channel. This is what the Withdrawal agreement was all about and this is what Theresa May could not deliver which ultimately cost her her job. Boris Johnson delivered the withdrawal agreement by putting the EU border between the UK and Northern Ireland which is what May didn't want. the issue here was that that the EU were intent on protecting their external borders which is fair enough IMO. So all the hoo-ha about the UK leaving the EU does not require an international conspiracy against the working class for an explanation. I don't know what Steve Hilton is talking about on fox News these days but I can tell you that no one shed a tear when he left these shores. We're just glad that this little weed is finally gone. It seems that his warped world-views have met fertile ground in the US right-wing media.

This brings us to Trump and his lies. You state that " I do not care if he wants to blow his own horn." but I think that this is extremely crucial as you need to trust people how they present their own record. How would you be able to trust a worker's claims that he has produced X units of some product the previous week if you accept that he can "blow his own horn"? Accountability is crucial in life, trust is crucial in life. If you say that you are OK with Trump lying to you, then how can you objectively judge his performance? I'm basically saying that you should not accept lower standards in those who lead your country.

For the record. I think trump's economic performance is OK. Nothing special but unlike him, I don't think that it has to be. You can have a good economy that is looking after its workers properly, gives them health care and gives them realistic chances to socially advance if you put in good work. There is no need to break records especially not when this is at the expense of the populations living conditions. I feel that his minor improvements in economic stats have been bought with massive tax-cuts that were not needed at the time (unless "ego" qualifies as "needed"). Another comparison that should be interesting, the US now have a national debt of more than 100% of GDP. Germany has a national debt of around 65% of GDP.

Slight change of subject but I still feel it's necessary to mention at one point:

- Free or almost free (nominal fee) university education.
- free health care at the point of access.
- parental leave at 70% plus of income for up to a year and in most cases for at least 6 months.
- Commitment to carbon neutral economies by 2050-ish.
- shutting down fossil fuel plants.
- High-speed rail links to replace the need to travel by car and plane as much as possible.
- strict environmental regulations
- banning combustion engines by 2040-ish

All of the above is what Republicans like to label as "Socialism". All of the above is what we already have in the EU, in some cases for decades now. I have checked with my friends and family, none of us is aware that we are living in a socialist country (and I had family in the German Democratic Republic...)

Cheers.

[celee]

In the second quarter of 2018, President Trump achieved 4.1% economic growth. I know I read he had a higher quarter. I will do some research after football and if I am wrong I will admit it. The problem is the web is saturated with articles filled with "adjusted numbers" trying to prove the President's economy was not as good as he claimed. So, it takes some digging. I almost wish I sided with the Trump haters, LOL.

Cheers

[Svensson]

U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth has soared under President Trump, topping 3% in 4 quarters under his administration.

• 2018 annual GDP growth was 2.9%
• In the first quarter of 2019 GDP growth was 3.1%

President Trump is unleashing economic growth and jobs. Since his election, the Trump administration’s pro-growth policies have generated 6 million new jobs, the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest point in 50 years, and wages have grown at more than 3% for 10 months in a row.

Which is exactly what have said. Trumps best years were 2.9, 2.3 and 2.3% growth. Obama's best years were 2.9, 2.5 and 2.5% growth as per https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/2...ted-states.jpg.

So, do you still stand by the statement that Trump has had 4.8% economical growth and that his economy is objectively much better than Obama's?

Cheers.

[celee]

As for the E.U. and I concede I am not an expert. It is my understanding that England voted twice to leave the European Union because Russia allegedly influenced the results of the first election. Could be wrong. It is also my understanding that England voted to leave the E.U. but can not officially leave until a trade deal is agreed on. I could be wrong. However, In your eagerness to prove me wrong you missed the point of my comment. My point was that the Globalists who wished to keep England in the E.U. used the same Russian interference conspiracy the Democrats used to claim Trump stole the election. I found that amusing. I believe, and I could end up being wrong, that the Globalists are trying to delay any trade deal because they want to force England back into the E.U. or at the very least make a deal that would end up leaving everything status quo. I do not follow British politics, however, I did enjoy Celebrity Big Brother, So, if a trade deal has been reached do not call me a liar. The narrative I was pushing is the Globalists pushed the idea that Russia subverted the will of Western Democracy in order to kill the populace movements in America and England.

[celee]

Economy And Jobs

President Donald J. Trump Achievements


Under President Trump’s leadership, Congress passed historic tax cuts and relief for hard-working Americans. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act:

• Is the first major tax reform signed in 30 years.
• Provided tax relief for 82% of middle-class families.
• Doubled the Child Tax Credit proving an additional $1,000 per child in tax relief for working parents.
• Nearly doubled the standard deduction, a change that simplified the tax filing process for millions of Americans.
• Cut taxes for small businesses by 20%, providing $415 billion in tax relief for small business owners.
• Alleviated the tax burden on over 500 companies. who used those savings to fund bonuses, wage increases for 4.8 million workers.
• Spurred new investments into the American economy, after it was passed businesses invested $482 billion into new American projects.
• Repealed Obamacare’s burdensome individual mandate.
• Made U.S. companies competitive on the world stage, lowering the corporate tax rate from one of the highest in the industrialized world (35%) to 21%.

U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth has soared under President Trump, topping 3% in 4 quarters under his administration.

• 2018 annual GDP growth was 2.9%
• In the first quarter of 2019 GDP growth was 3.1%

President Trump is unleashing economic growth and jobs. Since his election, the Trump administration’s pro-growth policies have generated 6 million new jobs, the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest point in 50 years, and wages have grown at more than 3% for 10 months in a row.

• The manufacturing industry created nearly half a million new jobs.
• 625,000 new construction jobs have been created since President Trump took office.
• Hispanic, Asian and African American unemployment rates have all reached record lows under President Trump.
• There are more than a million more job openings than unemployed persons in the U.S.

President Trump signed an executive order that expanded federally funded apprenticeship programs and on-the-job training, to provide an alternative for those looking to gain in demand skills that lack the resources to attend four-year universities.

• The executive order set in motion a new process that makes it easier for businesses to create and scale apprenticeship programs, providing many more Americans access to an affordable education that leads to a well-paying job.
• The Workforce Development Advisory Council established by President Trump’s executive order has already created on-the-job training opportunities for 6.5 million Americans.

The Trump administration prioritized the economic empowerment of women at home and across the globe.

• The Trump Administration launched the Women’s Global Development and Prosperity (W-GDP) Initiative, the first-ever whole-of-government approach focused on advancing women’s full and free participation in the global economy and allocated $50 million for the fund

[celee]

Sorry, you're just repeating statements that have been debunked higher up this thread.

where is the evidence that Trump has grown the economy by 4.8%. Or did you mean 4.8% cumulatively?

"I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective"

Trust me, I have looked at his policies objectively and I found most of them wanting. Some of them are mediocre successes which he needed to lie about and some are downright insulting to the average person's intelligence and dangerous for the American democracy. The damage he has done can not be easily undone if at all. Putin won. And it took only 5 years....

But the reason that I am so particular about Trump statements on the economy is this: A president is accountable to the people. When it comes to judging his performance after four years, an accurate record needs to be examined. This will be the basis for re-election or resigning him to a one-term president. Trump was the first president to use lying and propaganda as a strategic tool to cover up his staggering incompetence and self-serving ignorance and such a strategy must never be allowed. His centre piece is his economic performace so I would like you to state where you got the information of his economic performance from? I am suggesting that it is all a lie and I have provided my data above. Where's yours? I begin to suspect that it doesn't exist and that you are ok with propagating talking points with no evidence to back them up.

Cheers.

You presented no evidence Obama ever reached 3% economic growth. Good for you for your willingness to discuss policy and your objectivity. I presented no real evidence in my most recent post I was discussing why the country is so divided. Sadly not all of Trump's detractors are so objective as you.

Cheers

[Svensson]

There is a lot going on. I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective and even consider that they may have been wrong about some of their beliefs. I posted a video yesterday where the President is denouncing white supremacy and condemning the violence in Charlottesville. The video totally destroys the narrative of the media and liberals that President Trump said "The white supremacist were fine people." Nobody is going to acknowledge the video. I would welcome a good discussion with someone who can be objective.

I understand the shock and disappointment the liberals felt when President Trump won the election. They were all set to welcome the first female President. The progressives felt it was time for a female President it was very important to them and what happened America elected the most narcissistic, misogynist, alpha male, who exuded toxic masculinity. The liberals must have been gutted. They must have felt that their hopes for the future had taken three giant steps backward and the media told them that Donald Trump the buffoonish pop icon would never win. I have been following politics closely all my adult life and I have never seen media coverage so weird as the mainstream media covered election night 2016. A person watching would have thought a President had died rather than been elected.

Every time a Republican is elected he is confronted with the same accusations of racism, sexism. and xenophobia. The Democrat's political platform is centered around identity politics. However, when Donald Trump took office the standard accusations were supersized. Donald Trump was pure evil. He was Hitler reborn. The same people who set in front of their televisions and enjoyed Donald Trump the television personality suddenly believed "the Donald" was the antichrist. The celebrities who attended parties thrown by "the Donald" and the politicians who gladly took his money suddenly felt he was a treasonous Russian spy and the people who voted for him were deplorable knuckle-dragging racists. The resistance movement started before the man even took office. Trump's policies did not matter. The fact that Donald Trump was a reformed ex-Democrat and a very moderate Republican who the Democrats could have worked with made no difference talks of impeachment started before he took office.

Other Presidents have had to endure unfair criticism by the media and public. However, nothing compares to the level of pure hatred President Trump and his supporters have had to put up with. The bias media has beat our President up with lies and misrepresenting things he said. The President never called immigrants "animals." He said MS-13 gang members were animals. He never said, "white supremacists were fine people." He never suggested that people "should drink Clorox." He asked the doctors iF some kind of disinfectant can be used as a treatment. The media went crazy when President Trump went to a Church and held up the Bible. Somehow the media failed to report on why the President went to the Church and the significance of the Church. The Church was one of the oldest Churches in American history. Our country's founders attended the Church. Rioters burned the Church that is why the President went there. I could go on and on with examples. The media called President Trump supporters Nazis and compared ANTIFA the terrorist, "anti-fascist organization" that ironically suppress speech they do not agree with by using intimidation and violence just like Hitler's fascist Brown Coats, who attacked Trump supporters, woman, elderly, crippled, to "Marines storming the beach at Normandy" There has been violence on both sides but it is the Democrats and media that have divided the country created the environment for the violence that America has been subjected to over the last four years. An unhealthy precedent was set in 2016 of disrespecting the office of the President and condoning violent rioting as an acceptable form of political protest.

How does it end and we begin to heal as a country? The Democrats need to stop all the hateful rhetoric and gain some perspective. The President is not the antichrist. It is ok to criticize some of his policies but give him some credit for his accomplishments. President Trump is a businessman and I am sure like all rich and powerful people he has blurred the lines of right and wrong in his business deals. However, for four years President Trump has been investigated and the government special council's investigation was not limited to Russia. The lawyers basically investigated his entire life and nothing criminal was leaked out and it would have been leaked. The New York Times leaked his tax returns and all they came up with was a big surprise, he did not pay enough taxes and took advantage of tax laws. I am sure that Donald Trump the businessman was corrupt. The rich and powerful all are. The average person who identifies as a Democrat needs to understand that the Bidens, Clintons, Obamas, are all corrupt too and stop holding President Trump to a standard they are not willing to hold Democrat candidates to. Speaking as a conservative, the hypocrisy of the liberals is extremely frustrating. For four years they refused to accept the results of the 2016 elections. The Democrat establishment accused the President of colluding with Russia when there was no evidence of the Trump campaign working with Russia regardless if Russia tried to interfere with the 2016 election. The Democrats may feel that President Trump is a Russian operative but they need to quietly let the Trump supporters vent their frustration and challenge the results of the 2020 election. There is far more evidence connecting Biden to China than there was evidence connecting Trump to Russia and there is evidence of election corruption. Most of the cases that have been dismissed by the courts have been dismissed because the Judge ruled the plaintiff had no standing to bring the case. The evidence never was allowed to be presented. The President's legal team has been allowed to present their evidence to the State Legislators. Perhaps Trump haters could take the time and watch a hearing where the evidence is being presented before they dismiss Trump supporters as a "conspiracy theorist."

Understanding each other is the key to uniting the country. Democrats need to be objective and have some self-awareness. It makes Trump supporters upset when liberals want us to shut up accept the results of the election and unite after they subjected us to so much abuse over the last four years. I wish Democrats would discuss policies instead of attacking people personally. The discussion needs to be about policy differences instead of who is a nicer person Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

Sorry, you're just repeating statements that have been debunked higher up this thread.

where is the evidence that Trump has grown the economy by 4.8%. Or did you mean 4.8% cumulatively?

"I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective"

Trust me, I have looked at his policies objectively and I found most of them wanting. Some of them are mediocre successes which he needed to lie about and some are downright insulting to the average person's intelligence and dangerous for the American democracy. The damage he has done can not be easily undone if at all. Putin won. And it took only 5 years....

But the reason that I am so particular about Trump statements on the economy is this: A president is accountable to the people. When it comes to judging his performance after four years, an accurate record needs to be examined. This will be the basis for re-election or resigning him to a one-term president. Trump was the first president to use lying and propaganda as a strategic tool to cover up his staggering incompetence and self-serving ignorance and such a strategy must never be allowed. His centre piece is his economic performace so I would like you to state where you got the information of his economic performance from? I am suggesting that it is all a lie and I have provided my data above. Where's yours? I begin to suspect that it doesn't exist and that you are ok with propagating talking points with no evidence to back them up.

Cheers.

[celee]

It's genuinely worrying the amount of anger, across the board, in America. Years of unresolved issues are now boiling and breaking the surface. It's the constant cries for "locking them up", martial law, armed groups on the streets. This state of affairs is going to cost lives. Have people not suffered enough already without civil war?

There is a lot going on. I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective and even consider that they may have been wrong about some of their beliefs. I posted a video yesterday where the President is denouncing white supremacy and condemning the violence in Charlottesville. The video totally destroys the narrative of the media and liberals that President Trump said "The white supremacist were fine people." Nobody is going to acknowledge the video. I would welcome a good discussion with someone who can be objective.

I understand the shock and disappointment the liberals felt when President Trump won the election. They were all set to welcome the first female President. The progressives felt it was time for a female President it was very important to them and what happened America elected the most narcissistic, misogynist, alpha male, who exuded toxic masculinity. The liberals must have been gutted. They must have felt that their hopes for the future had taken three giant steps backward and the media told them that Donald Trump the buffoonish pop icon would never win. I have been following politics closely all my adult life and I have never seen media coverage so weird as the mainstream media covered election night 2016. A person watching would have thought a President had died rather than been elected.

Every time a Republican is elected he is confronted with the same accusations of racism, sexism. and xenophobia. The Democrat's political platform is centered around identity politics. However, when Donald Trump took office the standard accusations were supersized. Donald Trump was pure evil. He was Hitler reborn. The same people who set in front of their televisions and enjoyed Donald Trump the television personality suddenly believed "the Donald" was the antichrist. The celebrities who attended parties thrown by "the Donald" and the politicians who gladly took his money suddenly felt he was a treasonous Russian spy and the people who voted for him were deplorable knuckle-dragging racists. The resistance movement started before the man even took office. Trump's policies did not matter. The fact that Donald Trump was a reformed ex-Democrat and a very moderate Republican who the Democrats could have worked with made no difference talks of impeachment started before he took office.

Other Presidents have had to endure unfair criticism by the media and public. However, nothing compares to the level of pure hatred President Trump and his supporters have had to put up with. The bias media has beat our President up with lies and misrepresenting things he said. The President never called immigrants "animals." He said MS-13 gang members were animals. He never said, "white supremacists were fine people." He never suggested that people "should drink Clorox." He asked the doctors iF some kind of disinfectant can be used as a treatment. The media went crazy when President Trump went to a Church and held up the Bible. Somehow the media failed to report on why the President went to the Church and the significance of the Church. The Church was one of the oldest Churches in American history. Our country's founders attended the Church. Rioters burned the Church that is why the President went there. I could go on and on with examples. The media called President Trump supporters Nazis and compared ANTIFA the terrorist, "anti-fascist organization" that ironically suppress speech they do not agree with by using intimidation and violence just like Hitler's fascist Brown Coats, who attacked Trump supporters, woman, elderly, crippled, to "Marines storming the beach at Normandy" There has been violence on both sides but it is the Democrats and media that have divided the country created the environment for the violence that America has been subjected to over the last four years. An unhealthy precedent was set in 2016 of disrespecting the office of the President and condoning violent rioting as an acceptable form of political protest.

How does it end and we begin to heal as a country? The Democrats need to stop all the hateful rhetoric and gain some perspective. The President is not the antichrist. It is ok to criticize some of his policies but give him some credit for his accomplishments. President Trump is a businessman and I am sure like all rich and powerful people he has blurred the lines of right and wrong in his business deals. However, for four years President Trump has been investigated and the government special council's investigation was not limited to Russia. The lawyers basically investigated his entire life and nothing criminal was leaked out and it would have been leaked. The New York Times leaked his tax returns and all they came up with was a big surprise, he did not pay enough taxes and took advantage of tax laws. I am sure that Donald Trump the businessman was corrupt. The rich and powerful all are. The average person who identifies as a Democrat needs to understand that the Bidens, Clintons, Obamas, are all corrupt too and stop holding President Trump to a standard they are not willing to hold Democrat candidates to. Speaking as a conservative, the hypocrisy of the liberals is extremely frustrating. For four years they refused to accept the results of the 2016 elections. The Democrat establishment accused the President of colluding with Russia when there was no evidence of the Trump campaign working with Russia regardless if Russia tried to interfere with the 2016 election. The Democrats may feel that President Trump is a Russian operative but they need to quietly let the Trump supporters vent their frustration and challenge the results of the 2020 election. There is far more evidence connecting Biden to China than there was evidence connecting Trump to Russia and there is evidence of election corruption. Most of the cases that have been dismissed by the courts have been dismissed because the Judge ruled the plaintiff had no standing to bring the case. The evidence never was allowed to be presented. The President's legal team has been allowed to present their evidence to the State Legislators. Perhaps Trump haters could take the time and watch a hearing where the evidence is being presented before they dismiss Trump supporters as a "conspiracy theorist."

Understanding each other is the key to uniting the country. Democrats need to be objective and have some self-awareness. It makes Trump supporters upset when liberals want us to shut up accept the results of the election and unite after they subjected us to so much abuse over the last four years. I wish Democrats would discuss policies instead of attacking people personally. The discussion needs to be about policy differences instead of who is a nicer person Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

[jmenges]

Happy New Year everyone.
Don’t bother reporting posts in Pub Talk unless a spambot or Russian hacker slips through.
We don’t really moderate these threads.
We do, however, expect you to be civil with one another and comport yourselves with the grace and dignity that members of Casebook are known for, the world over.

God bless,

JM

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Seems to me reading all the arguments between left and right, here and multiple other places, it is time to change the name to just SA, nothing United about the country now, that’s for sure.

It's genuinely worrying the amount of anger, across the board, in America. Years of unresolved issues are now boiling and breaking the surface. It's the constant cries for "locking them up", martial law, armed groups on the streets. This state of affairs is going to cost lives. Have people not suffered enough already without civil war?

[celee]

Your last few posts have read like a Shaun Hannity Press-release and I honestly do not have the time and resources to address each and every sentence in them ,so I will just concentrate on a few low-hanging fruit....


"I am not sure what the President could have done differently."
The high-level issue is that the spread of the virus needs to be contained until a large enough number of the population is inoculated for the spread to stop. The measures required is dictated by how many people the health care system can treat at any one time and what human cost is acceptable. In particular, he could have

- Centrally organise a testing strategy. Some states have labs, others have factories for the materials, others have the expertise, etc etc. Instead, he just said, "testing is not our/my job" (note: this hasn't stopped him from taking credit once the testing was up and running).
- If there are shortages anywhere in the chain, utilise the defence production act as opposed to just threatening its use.
- stick to a CONSISTENT message on measures against the spread of the virus such as mask wearing, closing but then supporting businesses such as pubs and nightclubs.
- Promote treatments when they are backed up by science. A doctor who talks about Alien Sperm is not a scientist (mad scientists don't count).
- Be open and frank with the american public (by comparison, have a look at how Adern or Merkel handled public comms).
- don't torpedo how each governor handles it's own covid response (i.e. "Free Michigan" tweets).
- Don;t pretend this is all a hoax to make him look bad. remember when he said that on November 4th, CNN and NYTimes will stop reporting on Covid? Well they haven't becasue it was NOT about Trump...

the travel ban on China only bought Trump some time because it was clear that by that time, the Virus was already in the country. The question is, how do you use the time that you have just bought? trump decided to use it to do nothing. Instead, he proclaimed "if you have 15 cases, and in no time, they are close to zero, we will have done a pretty good job". He is correct. He would have done a pretty good job but alas, he very obviously didn't.


"the media who were describing the virus as no more dangerous than the flu"
Fox did, yes. The real media did certainly not.I actually agree with you that it is a terrible thing that Covid is belittled and systematically compared with the common flu. Fortunately, Forbes have compiled a list of dozens of times that trump has done exactly that even after he was taped by Woodward that he knew this virus is a serious problem: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=4b9dcc3bf9d2 . THis one here is a real doosey....:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
·
9 Mar 2020
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

Yes. I have thought about that and I have concluded that Trump's tweet is full or horse-manure.


"At the beginning of the pandemic, Dr. Fauci informed the public that using a mask was not a good idea and the virus was not air born."

Yes, and Fauci was clear at the time that the public should not start buying masks because the short supplies were needed by medics and that it was not certain at the time that the virus would spread mainly via air droplets. the medical advice will usually change when the understanding of the virus itself changes. None of this is rocket science IMHO...

Dr. Fauci said that the President's travel ban on China and Europe saved lives. Washington Post, New York Times, MSNBC, and CNN were all downplaying the dangers of the virus in January and February. Democrat leaders were claiming the virus was not a threat and encouraged people to come out and celebrate in China Town. You need to double-check your research. I guess you ignored the fact that President Trump made sure the States had what they needed. Remember, New York, claiming they would not have enough ventilators? Remember the mask shortage President Trump solved all those problems and was praised by Democrat Governors for his COVID response. Every time I watched the President speak he encouraged the public to follow CDC guidelines, social distance, and use a mask when social distancing is not possible. I guess the President deserves no credit for operation warp speed'? I guess Democrat Governors are blameless for the mistakes they made? Fair enough.

[celee]

Most people who are critical of Trump judged him before he ever became President. Calls for impeachment and the resistance movement started before he took office. President Trump is a narcissist and that may bother some people but not me. I love President Trump's policies I do not care if he wants to blow his own horn. Most narcissists are insecure people. The bias media really fuels President Trump's need to build himself up. The media constantly attacks him unfairly and sometimes dishonestly. For years the media has claimed President Trump never denounced white supremacy after the tragic events that took place in Charlottesville. Take a moment and listen to the comments the President made right after the riot. If Obama had made such a speech the media would have praised him. However, the media lied to the American public showed edited footage to push their racist narrative. Just take five minutes. https://youtu.be/mKi2AOPBavU