News Flash!! . . . VINCENT VAN GOGH WAS JACK THE RIPPER!!

[Vincent alias Jack]

I was trying to ignore this silly thread but really!
Why would Vince write American Slang? it gets sillier and sillier The language of that letter is not London slang or cockney.
Poor old Vincent had barely enough money to buy paints never mind take expensive trips to London to knock off a few 'ho's'
And paints come before food.

Miss Marple

Yes, but really.

As you reference, it was believed at the time that the Ripper letters contained some Americanisms. So where would Van Gogh, of all people, a Dutchman living in France, pick up Americanisms to use in his Ripper letters?

Even though Van Gogh did like to keep to himself, he didn’t live in a vacuum. He knew and conversed with other artists, and one such artist was named Dodge MacKnight . . . wait for it . . . an American. Van Gogh spent time around MacKnight during his time in . . . wait for it again . . . Arles in 1888.

Choosing to speak English around MacKnight, no doubt Vincent enjoyed his American expressions and picked up on their meaning. He then picked up pen and ink and made good use of his American friend’s slang in his Ripper letters.

Not bad, huh?

Vincent had the money for travel. His younger brother, Theo, provided it. It wasn’t so expensive—less than 100 francs round trip.

Yes, paints came before food, but drink came before either of these, and somewhere in there was also the need for murder.

Thanks,
Dale Larner

[Gene Lewis]

ubiquitous Sickert lived in Arles under fake name of VVG…

[Limehouse]

I don't really understand how Vincent's mother fits in to all of this. Why did he kill these women in such a violent and revolting way - because it was his mother's birthday?? And - why the dead dogs? It seems a strange way to celebrate your mother.

[Henry Flower]

You people are all missing the point.

Did Vincent kill in towns where he lived? No - because it was too dangerous to do so.

Except when he had previously lived in London: then, apparently, it was for some reason NOT too dangerous to kill on his own doorstep. When he lived in London it made sense to kill locally, whereas when he lived in Arles it made sense to travel all the way to London to kill, on various dates more or (more usually) less connected with his mother's birthday. I've been unable to ascertain any connection between his mother and Whitechapel, but we do know that Whitechapel is where Vincent kept all his dead dogs in storage.

Are we clear? He killed locally when he lived in London. But otherwise he avoided killing locally because it was oh so risky. Convenient, huh? And we know that in 1888 London was the only city Vincent could conveniently reach from Arles. It would've been far more difficult to reach, say, Paris - and after all there were no prostitutes in Paris in 1888...

It. All. Makes. Perfect. Sense.

[Sally]

Vincent was in Arles at the Fall of 1888. He painted no MJK face nor other victims, but still life with flowers… End of the story.

No, No, Gene! Get with the programme. VVG simply nipped over to Whitechapel whenever the mood took him. Allegedly.

Welcome to the boards, incidentally.

[Gene Lewis]

joke...

Vincent was in Arles at the Fall of 1888. He painted no MJK face nor other victims, but still life with flowers… End of the story.

[miss marple]

I was trying to ignore this silly thread but really!
Why would Vince write American Slang? it gets sillier and sillier The language of that letter is not London slang or cockney.
Poor old Vincent had barely enough money to buy paints never mind take expensive trips to London to knock off a few 'ho's'
And paints come before food.

Miss Marple

[towboydds]

In regards to the distance being traversed, as I’ve noted before, according to Bradshaw’s Continental Railway Guide of March 1888, using the express mail train routes, it was possible to complete the trip from London to Arles in as little as 24 hrs. As for making the trip on numerous occasions, Van Gogh’s own words and letters help provide the evidence and timing of his various trips.

Why would a wide range of other atrocities in other areas be a requirement for Jack the Ripper not being a local killer? Providing evidence for other murders in other cities simply isn’t necessary to prove Van Gogh killed in London.

A man might like to drive into another city to have tamales at a Mexican food restaurant when there are Mexican food restaurants in his own city, and do so because he loves those tamales and thinks the restaurants near him don’t offer up good tamales. It might also be that he goes for the other tamales because he kills prostitutes when he’s in that other city, believing that killing near his home isn’t so smart, since it might get him caught. Comprende?

Thanks,
Dale Larner

So then you admit that he didn't kill in his own area by everything that you are premising. Hard to believe that there are no lead ups, no evolutionary guide crimes where he lived (committed by Vince) that show what it is that you are trying to claim. Any killer in any country, in any history that did their killing outside the circle of their comfort? This would be a necessity that you DO need to prove your theory, and on top of that you would need to prove the same evidence through Vince and not just the precedence killer you may think you have found.

And when I said out of local killer, it was out of his town, block city block, square mile surround, not that he was a local killer. He would have to be a local killer first to be a long distance killer later, and there would have been reports of such in his area, no one perfects their trade or skill in unfamiliar territory. So find the proof at home first before claiming he was somewhere he could not have been.

[Vincent alias Jack]

Hi Dale et al.

A basic question to ask might be whether Vincent Van Gogh spoke English and whether he ever wrote any letters in English, let alone wrote English proficiently enough to write in the slangy tone of a Ripper letter. And if he wrote all the Ripper letters and did the murders as well when did he ever get any painting done and find time to live in Arles?

Chris

Van Gogh’s native language was Dutch, but he also spoke and wrote French and English fluently, and he also knew German, which he taught some boys at a school in Ramsgate, England. He did write some letters using English proficiency.

Vincent had many sources from which to pick up his slangy tone, and some could have been found in the early years of his life when he lived in England, and especially when he worked in London.

I don’t believe he wrote all the Ripper letters, but most, with only a few hoax writers in the mix. Writing the Ripper letters and committing the murders were not such time consuming tasks. The Arles to London travel took some time, but not so much, and he could write letters and do some sketching on the train.

Van Gogh had an obsessive nature, which is seen in his own letters and in his large number of drawings and paintings. Also, he was a fast painter. He had no trouble making time for Ripper letters and murder between his paintings. They were other forms of artwork that he also enjoyed immensely.

Thanks,
Dale Larner

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Dale et al.

A basic question to ask might be whether Vincent Van Gogh spoke English and whether he ever wrote any letters in English, let alone wrote English proficiently enough to write in the slangy tone of a Ripper letter. And if he wrote all the Ripper letters and did the murders as well when did he ever get any painting done and find time to live in Arles?

Chris

[Nemo]

For anyone interested, here is the letter to which Dale is referring

http://photos.casebook.org/displayimage.php?album=72&pos=29

It was dated 19th July 1889 and was posted from SW London to "Mister Monro", Head of police, Scotland Yard SW, from "Jack the Rip" and reads...

Say now boss no "narrow escape" your officers are lying free. I had heaps of time. guess I am coming west now for I am amoral man and am determined to put down wholesale whoredom I am going for "lady prostitutes" now and there are millions. then too some well known card sharper, and other sports will be attended to I have located one a scorcher not far from portman square who will be found properly carved and his tool ears tongue and ears I shall cut off and send you leaving his guts on the side walk this wont be mean anyway I am a new god to reform abuses and advantage players, must be stopped going around - no more crimping at poker, and the sucker shall have a lookin no more ringing in a cold deck no more reflectors for that boss I guess he may chuck his bugs and ...lds out for I am ... to his vile ... right away, he euchred a mate of mine and so I am going to stick him and others, pig sticking I call it shall be around Scotland Yard soon I am "a foreign butcher" am I you cannot locate me I guess but you see I am an instrument of god for good and when I divide neatly some killed bosses wife a lady lord I guess you will be mad and feel a bit mean and there is no one to squeal for I do it all myself... a word of warning beware and protect your low immoral pot bellied prince god has marked him for destruction and "mutilation", keep your men about pimlico and belgravia - soon there will be two more stiff on the side walks and ladies now "Jack the Ripper" to b other letters red pen

I can't guarantee the wording so look for yourself, but if anyone has any problems understanding the sentence structure, I can add some punctuation if necessary

Note the use of the term "side walk", "sucker" and the terms associated with playing cards and cheating

To me, Dale appears to have been a little selective with the letters but I'll reserve my opinion until I've seen all his research

[Vincent alias Jack]

Yes indeed Dale I have the pleasure of your book before me...when I've read it I expect I'll put it behind me...

Dave

I have no doubt of that. That is, in terms of your questions.

Thanks,
Dale Larner

[Cogidubnus]

Paraphrasing Max Reger

Yes indeed Dale I have the pleasure of your book before me...when I've read it I expect I'll put it behind me...

Dave

[Vincent alias Jack]

But where were they actually posted please Dale (just the Country will do)...you did check didn't you?

Only, wouldn't the police have noticed and logged all these letters and cards from Arles with French stamps, French postmarks and cross-channel backstamps? Mightn't it have been a bit of a clue?

Or mayhap you're suggesting VVG was in England virtually full time...in which case how did he post all those letters to Theo from Arles?

Interesting eh?

Dave

Yes, fascinating. I did check, thoroughly.

I see your dilemma. I can only say that Van Gogh sent some Ripper letters while he was in London, and that he sent other Ripper letters from other places when he wasn’t in London. It’s dealt with in beautiful detail in the book.

I know you want more specifics, but did you happen to see the handwriting comparison I recently posted? It’s pretty nice.

http://vincentaliasjack.com/wordpress/matches/

Thanks,
Dale Larner

[Cogidubnus]

But where were they actually posted please Dale (just the Country will do)...you did check didn't you?

Only, wouldn't the police have noticed and logged all these letters and cards from Arles with French stamps, French postmarks and cross-channel backstamps? Mightn't it have been a bit of a clue?

Or mayhap you're suggesting VVG was in England virtually full time...in which case how did he post all those letters to Theo from Arles?

Interesting eh?

Dave