Rioting in UK capital

[caz]

What a night!

We are all safe here so far, although I was nervously waiting for my daughter to confirm she had arrived safely at work at Imperial College, after her bus and tube journey from her home in Peckham.

The saddest news for me so far is that they burned Reeves furniture store to the ground. It was an old Croydon family business going back 150 years and the staff were always very friendly and helpful. The area is actually called Reeves Corner and opposite is Croydon parish church, with my daughter's old school, Old Palace, close by, parts of which date back to Norman and Tudor times and are very vulnerable to fire.

Very frightening seeing on the tv news all the flames coming from the Reeves building and no firemen in sight. It's a miracle that nobody appears to have been killed or badly burned yet. Many of the shops that were looted and torched would have had residential flats (apartments) above them.

Riots here tend to happen in high summer (whether it's football hooligans or 'disadvantaged' youngsters) when it's hot and the teenagers are off school and bored and looking for kicks. They all seem to have Blackberrys to communicate their intentions and stir things up, so I think it's more about media-induced resentment and envy than real poverty or deprivation. They see so many truly awful and untalented 'celebs' flaunting what seems like easily acquired wealth and designer gear and they want the same for themselves and think they can break the law to get it. Sadly they were proved right last night.

I'm hoping for heavy rain - they don't like getting wet!

Forget the water cannons, apparently they are all still in Northern Ireland and the cops here would need special training before using them anyway. They are already stretched to breaking point. And our soldiers (in case anyone has just woken up) are enjoying a long and lazy holiday in more Eastern climes, getting blown up by roadside bombs and coming home via Royal Wootton Bassett.

Love,

Caz
X

[Fleetwood Mac]

Firstly - how on earth can you say the left is 'holding court?' Do we have a left-wing government in power? I don't think so! This is NOTHING to do with the left - or the right for that matter.

Secondly - why do you single out black people ? Did you see the TV reports? There were white and black involved.

This is a case of outrageous public disorder that needs to be dealt with for what it is - violence, thuggery and theft.

I agree with Phil - let's have a curfew and let's get some tropps on the streets with water cannons - just until things calm down.

The vast majority are black. The areas going up are predominantly black communities, e.g. Tottenham, St Pauls in Bristol.

Do you agree?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Oh, please! Race isn't the issue?

What you said was "If the black sections of this country don't think they're getting a fair crack of the whip in this country, then why don't they just **** off to Africa or Jamaica ..."

Just a little experiment of mine to see which of you would jump in with the 'racist' tag. It took all of 2 minutes. I'm sat here laughing my head off at the attempt to swerve the issue and move it along towards racism. You're far too quick to react for your own good - like a robot who hears the words black and crime and instantly shouts 'racism'. Brainwashed, mate. And, of course, you've edited my previous post and conveniently left out the 'white, black, whatever' comment.

Look, these kids are black, and they're smashing the place up. Our justice system needs to deal with them harshly, and in an ideal world, yes, they would be shipped out of the country and left to fend for themselves. Racist? No. A proposed solution to the problem of lawlessness? Yes. Ultimately, you forfeit your privileges when you break the law, and in the event the only method for stopping this wanton, casual violence is to forfeit the privilege of living here, then I for one would support it. For clarity, for the second time, that includes offenders of any racial or religious persuasion.

I know, I know. We're not supposed to say some black people commit crime. And we're not supposed to blame them; the fault lies with law abiding citizens for not giving them opportunity.

Spare me, because quite frankly I'm sick to the back teeth of excuses, abdicating responsibility and attempting to swerve the discussion by moving it along toward racism.

[John Bennett]

It's 'gangsta' culture, that's what it is. It's revolting and it doesn't matter what colour or creed participate in it, it's negative, opportunistic, selfish and in its worst manifestation, violent or even lethal.

I've seen it first hand in schools of all places. It's one of the reasons I left the teaching profession. Self-righteous kids who think they're untouchable because they have 'rights' or a posse of bully boys who are willing to go to extreme lengths to exact retribution for the most pointless of transgressions.

It's mob violence, safety in numbers cowardly crap. We now see how out of control it can be - this is not just people avoiding dodgy areas at night any more, this is coming to a town near you. You have no choice but be subjected to the results of their criminal mindset.

The government needs to get VERY tough now. And it shouldn't be seen as containing/inflaming a political struggle or principle because there isn't one to opress. It's stopping extreme criminality. These kids and those that tag along with it are now - just because they feel they can - wantonly destroying or communities and OUR rights to be able to just go about our lives.

[Chris]

Oh god. All you have to say is 'black' and people jump to the racist conclusion.
...colour or race isn't the issue here

Oh, please! Race isn't the issue?

What you said was "If the black sections of this country don't think they're getting a fair crack of the whip in this country, then why don't they just **** off to Africa or Jamaica ..."

[Limehouse]

This is what happens when the left hold court.


Now, I can't stand the far right as well as the left. But, let's say what a lot of people don't want to say. If the black sections of this country don't think they're getting a fair crack of the whip in this country, then why don't they just **** off to Africa or Jamaica and get their fair crack over there instead of smashing up this country.

Firstly - how on earth can you say the left is 'holding court?' Do we have a left-wing government in power? I don't think so! This is NOTHING to do with the left - or the right for that matter.

Secondly - why do you single out black people ? Did you see the TV reports? There were white and black involved.

This is a case of outrageous public disorder that needs to be dealt with for what it is - violence, thuggery and theft.

I agree with Phil - let's have a curfew and let's get some tropps on the streets with water cannons - just until things calm down.

[Fleetwood Mac]

As you've just illustrated, this situation will certainly be a gift to racists everywhere.

Oh god. All you have to say is 'black' and people jump to the racist conclusion. You've been brainwashed, mate.

If it's any consolation to you: I can't stand the far right and the left in equal measures.

Also, I want them all gone: white, Pakistani and black. The ones who can't respect private property and the rule of law - colour or race isn't the issue here.

It's high time we reverted to some simple principles: break the law and you're going to be on the wrong end of some serious punishment that you won't like (whether white, black, Pakistani or whatever).

Let's get out of the EU and have no truck with human rights laws. Let's do it our way, and anyone breaking the law will be subject to hard labour or the death penalty depending upon severity of the crime.

We're too much of a soft touch all in the name of the left who believe that people should not take repsonsibility for their actions, but, rather, it's our fault - law abiding citizens - for not giving them opportunity. I mean, ponder that viewpoint for a short period of time and I challenge anyone to not lauigh their heads off. Except it's not funny because that attitude is ruining this country.

[Chris]

If the black sections of this country don't think they're getting a fair crack of the whip in this country, then why don't they just **** off to Africa or Jamaica and get their fair crack over there instead of smashing up this country.

As you've just illustrated, this situation will certainly be a gift to racists everywhere.

[Fleetwood Mac]

England is not the country it once was not so long ago.

This country is a mess and it needs sorting out.

We have a situation where wanton, casual violence is excused as 'disenfranchised sections of society'. This is what happens when the left hold court. To me this is a consequence of years of the 'we just want to make everyone equal' mantra.

It is absolutely beyond the pale. And it's high time criminals were subjected to breaking rocks and hard jail, as opposed to gyms, libraries and 3 square meals a day.

Now, I can't stand the far right as well as the left. But, let's say what a lot of people don't want to say. If the black sections of this country don't think they're getting a fair crack of the whip in this country, then why don't they just **** off to Africa or Jamaica and get their fair crack over there instead of smashing up this country.

[Limehouse]

I am saddened and sickend by this inexcusable behaviour and feel very sorry for those who have lost their homes - businesses or workplaces. There is absolutely no reason for this reaction except for outright greed and determination to destroy things for the fun of it.

I know the Tottenham Hale area very well. I was born in Walthamstow and raised in Chingford. These areas were always occupied by hard-working and clean living working class people. My elderly aunt and uncle who still live in the area are terrified to go out and hearbroken by the destruction being visited on their beloved London. My aunt lived through the blitz as a small child. That was bad enough - but now the enemy lives in her street.

My husband is a London cabbie and was out and about last night. He was keen to get people home from work safely. He leaves his cab in London and travels home to Peterborough on the last train. He arrived home at 3.30am this morning tired and concerned that his cab might be attacked - it's his means of earning a living.

My daughter is a paramedic in Leicester. Thankfully she is off duty this week but may get called in. She is part of an international emergency response crew but she qualified for that in order to help victims of earthquakes and floods etc - not people injured by mindless yobs.

It is well known on this site that I am a socialist - but I would like to say here and now that the actions of these people deserve harsh punishment. They are traitors to their own kind. Shame on them.

[Sister Hyde]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but here it happens every year (the original sparkle always being a cop blunder and always attracting looters and always ending up this way), and it always tend to take pretty long before restoring peace (here generally it takes weeks). I'm sad to know our brittish neighbours seem to start experiencing the same crap we have here on a regular basis.

[Phil Carter]

This list makes me so sad. I never, ever thought it would happen.

Croydon, Notting Hill, Fulham, Lee, Elephant and Castle, Colliers Wood, Chalk Farm, Balham, Clapham, Old Kent Road, Tower Bridge, Loughborough Junction,
Ladbroke Grove, Woolwich, Charlton, Greenwich, Camden, Brent, Clapham Junction, New Cross, Mile End, Ealing, West Ealing, Camden, Whitechapel, Kilburn, Deptford, Enfield, East Ham, Harrow, Catford, Peckham, Lewisham, Brixton, Bethnal Green, Hackney, Ladywell, Denmark Hill, Leyton Mills, Walthamstow, Chingford Mount, Waltham Forest, Dalston, Edmonton, Islington, King's College Hospital, Oxford Circus, Ponder's End, Walthamstow, Tottenham.

That's riot and mayhem in at least 50 areas of London.

In addition, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham, Liverpool.

All youths and teenagers.

No wonder the police were stretched.

I reckon there will be a curfew imposed in the big cities tonight. I also think the police don't stand a cat's hope in hell's chance.

And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the IOC (International Olympic Committee) start to wonder and question whether London is safe for the Olympics NEXT summer.

I also wonder what the proud parents of these youths think of their dear children now.

Little discipline, a politically correct system where no one dares go over the tiniest of lines, all fuelled by the instant message world we live in.

Gut- wrenchingly awful. I am disgusted and very sad that my dear home town of London is in the grip of anarchy conducted by mindless, brainless thugs.

I hope as many as humanly possible get caught and get put away for a very, very long time.

It's a small miracle that no-one has been killed.

God help the normal residents and police if this carries on.

My thoughts go out to them all.

Bring the Army in Mr. Cameron. Please. The police can't be everywhere chasing lighteningly swift mob rule. The resources are just not there.



sad and disgusted

Phil

[Errata]

I love that your outraged that people would riot for material gain. Most riots are like that. The first day is all self righteous and from then on it's emptying out electronics and liquor stores.

[Heinrich]

England is not the country it once was not so long ago.

[Chris]

This is just terrible. I remember the riots in Notting Hill and Brixton, but they pale in comparison.

I'd suggest the Broadwater Farm riot of 1985 doesn't pale in comparison, because someone was killed in that riot.