Rioting in UK capital

[tji]

Hi Eratta

I believe quite a lot of us have a great idea what to do with them, unforunately it doesn't seem to be legal

Tj

[Chris]

Errata

Thanks for giving us the view from Tennessee.

[Sister Hyde]

Some communities have it way worst, whatever they do, and wherever they go, take the Romanis for example, 2 stations away from here we had the largest camp in the whole of western europe, from the start of course everyone was bitching out about it eventhough they were settled outside town, it was "they are thieves", cause yesn they do steal a lot of old crap made of kopper or any metal they can sell, last time I went there with food, I found the camp deserted, with a guy in flashy yellow jacket getting down his caterpillar telling me "they've been deported". Now, if these people had been arabs, or blacks, they would have got money endlessly for flats, living, "integrating" and even studying, but no, they were just european gipsies, seen as "untermensch" kinds, and nobody said a thing and everyone supported it whereas it would have been months of demonstrations from numerous associations if they had come from Africa. all that for saying that some so called "communities" shouldn't complain, because they are definitely not the one suffering from prejudice.

[Errata]

Not to come off as a bleeding heart liberal here (which I am, but not in all circumstances) but it seems pretty obvious from the tenor of most of these posts that England evidently hasn't the slightest idea what to do about gang culture, or hasn't the slightest inclination to do something about it.

Not that we aren't as bad, but we certainly aren't surprised when these things happen.

This is the price we pay for not giving a **** about certain communities. And we really don't. And it's not like we don't know where gangs come from. We've known since the 40s. People need to belong, they need respect, they need recognition. And if they don't get it from society as a whole, they form smaller groups in order to get it. Logic would dictate that we take care of these needs before it happens, but we don't.

I would imagine that a good amount of London could not have cared less about whether these people lived or died. They care now. And anyone who has ever spent any time with a child knows that negative attention is better than no attention at all.

And I'm not proposing that everyone go out and hug a rioter. What's done is done. They are committing crimes, and they need to be dealt with as criminals. But it also helps to apologize when you screw up. And you guys have screwed up. So have they, but they will pay for it when this is over. The goal now is to get it over. And that means sucking it up and saying you're sorry. I mean, what was the plan? Stiff upper lip them into submission?

They have a right to be angry. They don't have the right to riot. And clearly a good deal of them are angry. And probably with good cause. But as long as they are angry, they won't stop. And if the cops kill more of them, they certainly aren't going to get LESS angry. So I imagine unless you guys were planning on killing all of them, that some steps should be taken to address their problems. Before London burns again.

[Limehouse]

Don't forget the appalling Nick Clegg, who nearly provoked a riot himself when he visited Birmingham:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...riot-tour.html

Him too! Appalling! Who can trust him? Are young people going to listen to him after he sold them down the river?

[Chris]

Don't forget the appalling Nick Clegg, who nearly provoked a riot himself when he visited Birmingham:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...riot-tour.html

[Limehouse]

Posh boy Cameron statements on Wednsday morning:

CAMERON:Nothing is off the table. There are contingency plans for water cannon to be used at 24 hours notice.

So if the rioters/looters can be persuaded to hang around for 24 hours the water canon will arrive maybe!! What planet is Cameron on.

CAMERON:There is evidence that a more robust approach to policing in London resulted in a quieter night in the capital

But 3 people died in Birmingham, Manchester city centre wrecked, riots in Liverpool, Leicester.... Obviously these are not important if they're not in London they don't count.

CAMERON:On police funding: We won't do anything that will reduce the amount of visible policing on our streets.

So all the swingeing cuts in police budgets and warnings from cheif constables of manpower cuts was all a joke then?

Shoild have stayed on holiday taking photo opportunities with Italian waitresses because our PM is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard when you need leadership!

Brilliant post brummie. Yes, the police cuts do not exactly encourage the police to get out there and put their health and lives on the line when their pensions and jobs are under threat. Also, holding back a bit to let the riot take its course kind of shows those making the cuts how important these front line jobs are and what happens when cuts are made.

I had the same feelings as you about politicians facing the cameras and making a big noise about what a terrible situation it is and how they are going to punish those responsible harshly. Everyone knows Cameron is a multi-millionaire and could never understand what its like to live in one of these communities, and could never understand how it feels to be the bottom of the pile. The same can be said for Teresa May and the appalling Boris. Please don't put them in front of the cameras. Get some youth workers or some influential young people who can get the message across that what's going on is wrong and will only hurt damaged communities even further.

[brummie]

Posh boy Cameron statements on Wednsday morning:

CAMERON:Nothing is off the table. There are contingency plans for water cannon to be used at 24 hours notice.

So if the rioters/looters can be persuaded to hang around for 24 hours the water canon will arrive maybe!! What planet is Cameron on.

CAMERON:There is evidence that a more robust approach to policing in London resulted in a quieter night in the capital

But 3 people died in Birmingham, Manchester city centre wrecked, riots in Liverpool, Leicester.... Obviously these are not important if they're not in London they don't count.

CAMERON:On police funding: We won't do anything that will reduce the amount of visible policing on our streets.

So all the swingeing cuts in police budgets and warnings from cheif constables of manpower cuts was all a joke then?

Shoild have stayed on holiday taking photo opportunities with Italian waitresses because our PM is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard when you need leadership!

[mariab]

A good idea in theory - but many of these people are unemployed and will either not pay the fine or will go out and commit more crimes in order to pay the fine.

Interesting point. For the supposed underclass half of these looters will own a Blackberry.

Precisely, Jason. “Unemployed“, but able to afford a Blackberry – often with mom's and dad's scrillo.

[jason_c]

A good idea in theory - but many of these people are unemployed and will either not pay the fine or will go out and commit more crimes in order to pay the fine.

They should certainly be made to help put right the destruction they have caused and should serve tough community sentences during the day and then be returned to prison overnight. They should have their personal possessions confiscated (phones, Playstations, Xboxes, TVs etc) and returned when they have paid a reasonable debt to society.

Interesting point. For the supposed underclass half of these looters will own a Blackberry.

[Limehouse]

Actually, the only policy that would help here is that arrested rioters are forced to pay substantial fines, if necessary via a new law. Being forced to part with money always helps, getting the message through unequivocally. Collecting high fines could also help balance a bit the high cost of all the repairs/insurance costs to be expected for all the damage on property.

A good idea in theory - but many of these people are unemployed and will either not pay the fine or will go out and commit more crimes in order to pay the fine.

They should certainly be made to help put right the destruction they have caused and should serve tough community sentences during the day and then be returned to prison overnight. They should have their personal possessions confiscated (phones, Playstations, Xboxes, TVs etc) and returned when they have paid a reasonable debt to society.

[brummie]

Reports this morning of three people killed in Winson Green, Birmingham when a car was driven into them while they were protecting their businesses and community. Expect to see more groups of local people uniting to protect their areas from the ferral scum looking for an easy target,hope it doesn't lead to more extreme vigilantism.

[Chris]

Thankfully there seems to have been no trouble to speak of last night in London, though there were some serious incidents in Manchester, the West Midlands and elsewhere.

By the way, thanks to the overseas armchair police commissioners for providing us with some light entertainment with their comments, at an otherwise depressing time.

[mariab]

Actually, the only policy that would help here is that arrested rioters are forced to pay substantial fines, if necessary via a new law. Being forced to part with money always helps, getting the message through unequivocally. Collecting high fines could also help balance a bit the high cost of all the repairs/insurance costs to be expected for all the damage on property.

[Limehouse]

To be fair to the police - on Monday night they were completely outrun in some areas of London. As fast as police were being drafted in to deal with one pocket of hooliganism a pocket would break out elsewhere. With the mobs numbering in their hundreds - it was almost impossible for the police at the forefront to arrest and detain and transport that number of people to cells.

This type of behaviour requires a secondary force such as tear gas or water cannons. I expressed surprised that more tazers were not used but my daughter told me that when used the barbs that are shot into the body need to be removed by a doctor or paramedic and they just cannot be used on large numbers of people who are all moving around swiftly.