Rioting in UK capital

[Sister Hyde]

Just a reminder that we (in the UK at least) had better not discuss specific cases unless there's been a conviction.

really??? it means people can not talk about a case before the perpetrator had been identified and trialed?

[Sister Hyde]

Hi Sister

Oh yes, like black holes in the sky.

Yours

Crazy Diamond

well obviously your hands are steady enough to type without mistakes so I'll just come to the conclusion that you're actually sober (if yoiu really weren't your mind would be conscient enough to come to these thoughts but your hands...out of control) but hey that's just good, at least you won't need to worry about the tricky part, you're a wise man

[Robert]

Just a reminder that we (in the UK at least) had better not discuss specific cases unless there's been a conviction.

[Robert]

Hi Sister

Oh yes, like black holes in the sky.

Yours

Crazy Diamond

[Sister Hyde]

Can anyone justify this teaching assistant looting? There are a number of these looters who have decent enough jobs. Poverty my arse.

a teacher doesn't earn THAT much, and I dunno exactly how it works in the UK but just having a steady salary makes you not allowed to ANY social prestation, so I guess a teaching assistant must be worst. Of course it is no reason, but it's almost like these would have more circumstances for doing it than others who get flat, education, health care and children expanses free on top of 1200 a month for not even trying at all. although no one in this is innocent and no one should have excuses, I don't think that is such an strange case

[Ally]

Because deprivation is relative. Teaching salaries suck and he's mad he can't afford a Benz.

Don't you know, it's NEVER the individuals' fault. It's always, but always society's fault. And not the majority of society to blame..oh no, the elite, rich society...it's their fault entirely what these poor, poor people were forced to do, just to get a new HDTV.

[jason_c]

Can anyone justify this teaching assistant looting? There are a number of these looters who have decent enough jobs. Poverty my arse.

[Sister Hyde]

Hey, Sister Hyde, I'm thinking that if we'd only made it clear to Hitler early on that he could have the French, and the Czechs, and the Poles, and the Austrians, and the British, and the Jews, and the Russians....he might have left the Belgians alone.

Yours on LSD

Robert

opk ok but the Belgians can't help it, they are slow witted, when they realized they were in war, they were already occupied.
Say, do your eyes also go from clear hazel to just pitch black while on it?

[Robert]

Hey, Sister Hyde, I'm thinking that if we'd only made it clear to Hitler early on that he could have the French, and the Czechs, and the Poles, and the Austrians, and the British, and the Jews, and the Russians....he might have left the Belgians alone.

Yours on LSD

Robert

[Ally]

I hear what you say Ally but poverty is relative and although few in this country endure the deprivation experienced in many parts of the world - particularly the Horn of Africa - they are still very disadvantaged by comparison to the most wealthy in this country and America.

No, actually poverty isn't relative. Whiny people's emotional feelings about being impovershed is relative, but if you have energy and sufficient food to fuel a four day riot, you are not, by any means deprived. When you are smashing stores to get computers and TVs ..not food, or water or medicine, you aren't impoverished.

What message does that send out ? Most decent hard working people will just get their heads down and carry on with things - trying to make the best of it - but a significant minority won't .

Oh I am sorry, I didn't realize England was a dictatorship and the people lacked the voting power. My mistake. Who knew you were living under draconian rule at the mercy of your cruel overlords, powerless to change! As for what message it sends out: go to school, get and education and become a person in a position of power, so you aren't subjected to the whim of those in power.

[Sister Hyde]

Shows where we went wrong with Hitler - we didn't give him enough of what he wanted.

no! no! no! If we should have given any dictator more of what they wanted surely not this one!

[TomTomKent]

the rioters are to blame
the government is to blame

But once again-who pays the price?

The innocent and hardworking middle class. Typical.
And I am freaking sick of it.

Well technically the majority of the price tag will be picked up by the innocent and hard working members of the working class. The majority population.

[Robert]

Shows where we went wrong with Hitler - we didn't give him enough of what he wanted.

[Errata]

It isn't about poverty. I mean, it doesn't help, but that's not the deciding factor. It's about basic needs not being met. And anyone who has spent any time with a child knows that negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs applies to the both the individual and the social mass. When higher level needs like respect, self-esteem, achievement, confidence, etc. are not being met, it creates a high level of anxiety. But society can can exist in a high level of anxiety, as long as the lower level needs are being met. Without safety or employment, or if any other lower level need is not met, it creates violence. A riot is essentially a lower level need being violated that lights the match, and the anxiety from higher level needs not being met that fuels the flames.

Which doesn't make it okay. But a government whose priority is the preservation of life and property is not in a position of strength against a mob. It's the same as terrorism. You can give in or not give in, but either way you are not the one in control. Which is why every government (except Israel, but they are young still) has occasionally given in to terrorism. Because the preservation of life and property is more important to them than not giving in.

With riots, the general pattern is to give the mob something they want. There is usually an event that sparks it, and an excuse that sustains it. In this case, I would imagine the fastest way to end it would be to fire the cops who shot Mark Duggan, shut down Operation Trident pending a full investigation into it's practices, and throw in a review of how police brutality complaints are handled. In the end I can't even think it would matter if they actually did investigate Operation Trident or police brutality, but the show is required. As is the sacrifice. It doesn't matter whether those cops screwed up or not. They are the visible symbol of why a lot of these people don't feel safe. Punish them, fire them, and it sends the obviously fictitious message that the government is working to protect all of it's citizens.

The government isn't going to start killing or deporting people. They also aren't going to tell them to stop being whiny little crybabies. And sitting in a position of moral superiority isn't going to stop this. Maybe some of these folks deserve to die. Maybe they are whiny crybabies. And sure most of us would never do something like this, no matter our color or economic status. Of course most of our needs are being met, and we cannot predict what we would do if they were not. But that doesn't stop riots. It's the price we pay for living as a social group. Sometimes we give people things they don't deserve in order to preserve the social unit.

[Sister Hyde]

But once again-who pays the price?

The innocent and hardworking middle class. Typical.
And I am freaking sick of it.

yes Mr Normal, it's typical, timeless AND international! UK is far from an isolated case like this. look at France, now the long teethed dwarf has planned to wipe the "fortune tax" off for rich people (of course for his own and his friends interest), and instead, they will impose a new "tax on holiday residences", which means once again who are the wronged ones again??? the hard working middle class who have been boasting their asses for 30 years to be able to afford their tiny holiday house. these things appear in every country and at all times.