Osama Bin Laden DEAD- Killed By U.S. Forces

[Red Zeppelin]

Nobody has mentioned Stalingrad.

Well even Stalingrad wasn't the killer blow. A month after Stalingrad the Germans recovered and inflicted a major back hander counter attack defeat on the Soviets at Kharkov in Feb/March 1943. This enabled them to be able to go on the offensive again at Kursk a few months after that. The ironic thing is that if the Kursk offensive went ahead in May 1943 as originally planned it could well have succeeded. As it was Hitler delayed it until July 1943 so that more Tiger tanks and the new Panther tank etc could be introduced. This gave the Soviets time to find out about the impending offensive and to be prepared with massive defensive belts.

The Germans weren't nullified after Stalingrad. Kursk was the more important Soviet victory. Even so, after Kursk it still took a slow 2 year fight back to the Reich.

[Robert]

I suppose someone is going to protest that the German army was going the other way when war was declared.

[Derrick]

Hitler planned to take over Central and Western Europe by attacking Poland?

I'd have thought that if Western Europe was his priority he would have attacked Western Europe first. But no, Hitler had the cunning plan of beating France and Britain by invading Poland. Genius.

Without being directly attacked we declared war. Rightly so in my opinion. But I would like Derrick to admit we were not attacked first. Our politicians made the decision that Nazi Germany was a threat. It was a judgement call. A legitimate judgement call that Derrick denys to any other Western leaders since WW2.

Hi Jason

All I was saying was what Churchill believed. You agree with him I think.

Hitler had given up hope on a grand Anglo-German alliance several years before war eventually broke out. Nazi sympathisers such as Halifax made no headway in making the plan popular.

Even the wrethced Edward VIII courted Hitler in the vain hope that he would be reinstalled as King if Germay conquered Britain. The bloke was a complete arsehole and should have stood trial as a traitor to this country.

Hitlers final plan was to obliterate Poland after talks between Germany and Poland continually broke down. This was to act as a buffer between Germany and the Eastern Front which Hitler believed he would ultimately conquer by 1943.

The rearmament of the Rhineland and various other contraventions of the Varsaille Treaty and the League Of Nations together with the obstructions from Britain and France made a wider European war inevitable to anyone who followed the signs.

I fail to see the point of comparing the situation in 1939 with what the Western alliances are doing now in the middle east. Then we faced a direct threat which lasted 6 years, killed millions and lead to the Holocaust. A crime so heinous it beggars belief.

If you are comparing then and now and say that the 2 are equitable then I can't help you I'm afraid.

The war today is purely about economic power and the control of scarce resources. In 1939 economics played a major part but fascism was (and still is) an evil ideaology, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Derrick

[jason_c]

Even the warmongering old rascist Churchill could see that Hitler had rearmed and had a take over of central and western Europe in mind. Do you deny that the Battle of Britain, the Blitz and operation Sealion didn't ever exist?


Derrick (the Aubergine Man)

Hitler planned to take over Central and Western Europe by attacking Poland?

I'd have thought that if Western Europe was his priority he would have attacked Western Europe first. But no, Hitler had the cunning plan of beating France and Britain by invading Poland. Genius.

Without being directly attacked we declared war. Rightly so in my opinion. But I would like Derrick to admit we were not attacked first. Our politicians made the decision that Nazi Germany was a threat. It was a judgement call. A legitimate judgement call that Derrick denys to any other Western leaders since WW2.

[Natalie Severn]

Nobody has mentioned Stalingrad.

[Derrick]

A very good post Derrick.

Thank u Julie

ATB
Derrick

[Bob Hinton]

Caps

No I don’t assume that, it’s just that I have had some experiences and they endow me with a certain knowledge. Knowledge that enables me to say with some authority that when some half wit like you pontificates about a subject they know absolutely nothing about (shooting baddies just to wing ‘em a la Lone Ranger) I can say so.

Now if you haven’t got the good manners to admit your mistakes and apologise for them – that’s fine – but then that’s the sort of person you are!

[Bob Hinton]

Not good enough!

Big kids who go around having a go at little kids were always called a bully from where I come from

So you agree that you are a little kid? Actually a bully is someone who attacks another without fear of retaliation. As I said if you want to attack me -dig out- but forget the bit about me not retaliating!

The war in Europe was over in May. The USA had to be kicked by the Japanese into supporting us because of Pearl Habour. Even the US realised that the war had to be won in Europe first with the invasion of France.


I’m sorry I’m just an historian. I didn’t realize there were two wars going on between 1939 and 1945. So according to you we had a World War II European Tour, and then World War II Pacific Venue? Well sorry to disabuse you little boy but the war ended in September 1945, so that anything that happened in August 1945 cannot possibly be described as ‘post-war’. Get a grown up to explain it to you.

What was this country doing invading another country in 2003? Beside, how many of the suicide bombers were of Iraqi or Afghani descent? All were from ex-Pakistani families, Pakistan is supposedly an ally of the West.

I’m sorry what country is this? If you mean Iraq, well that’s because they broke the terms of the ceasefire previously agreed. As for the decendency of the bombers – what's your point? The nationality of many of the people who fought for the Nazis wasn’t German.

But what the hell was the USA doing in Korea in the first place?

The US (apart from a few small bases) weren’t in Korea before the invasion. Your ignorance seems to blind you to the fact that the war was fought by the United Nations – not the United States.

Even the Ultra Conservative Governor of California Arnie Schwarzenegger perferred an Uzi 9mm and an AK47 for his films that were dedicated to world peace and harmony

I’ve got absolutely no idea what this supposed to mean. Uzi’s are made by the Israelis and AK’s are Russian built. What films have to do with the argument I don’t know unless little boy here thinks they’re real.

I assume that you mean invade in the same sense as our ancestors invaded and killed so many people in countries all over the world.


Which ancestors are these? Do you mean the Roman ancestors who invaded us from Italy, the Viking ancestors, who invaded us from Scandinavia, the Saxon ancestors who invaded us from Germany, the French ancestors who invaded us from Normandy? This was how empires were made in years gone by, I would have hoped by 1945 we would have learnt better.


I'll give you the benefit of any doubt here.

Oh there’s absolutely no doubt!

I'll leave the personal insults to you Bob...it seems it is all you do as far as I'm concerned.

Well thankfully the concerns of a little boy like you don’t have to bother us too much.

And finally this gem:

Oh dear well I am sorry that my speeling mistacks ofeend.

They don’t offend – they sadden! As I said earlier –poorly educated.

[Bob Hinton]

Really?

...dear Bobbo -
k[/url]

As I said, my name is Bob - you may call me Mr Hinton!

[cappuccina]

Bob....the reason you offend so many people with such a wide range of views....it's amazing really, is because you ASS-ume that your experiences are "better", or "superior" or whatever it is, than everyone else's...Truth is, they are different than some people's experiences and similar to others'....no more no less, so...dear Bobbo - while you are entitled to have an opinion, as we all are, you risk no one listening to you, or worse, becoming a "Fawlty Towers" stereotype if all you do is constantly tantrum while asserting your alleged superiority.

Sorry for the run-on sentence, but the above says everything I need to say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk

[Limehouse]

A very good post Derrick.

[Derrick]

Little man if you want to have a pop at me be warned I play by big boys rules.

Big kids who go around having a go at little kids were always called a bully from where I come from.

By your immature naivety and abysmal ignorance I am assuming you are about ten years of age with a very poor education.

Guess again Bobby.

Let us start with your ignorance.

Hitler posed a direct threat to this country.

No in fact the last thing Hitler wanted was to fight a war on two fronts. That is why he offered terms to Britain on several occasions. He also gambled on the fact that because Britain hadn’t actually signed the treaty with Poland we wouldn’t come to its aid.

Even the warmongering old rascist Churchill could see that Hitler had rearmed and had a take over of central and western Europe in mind. Do you deny that the Battle of Britain, the Blitz and operation Sealion didn't ever exist?

The USA and it's clients have committed more atrocities in the post war period than the USSR could ever have imagined....FACT. From Hiroshima and Nakasaka via Korea and Vietnam to Timor and Central America and the Middle East and Africa.

So according to you the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (at least learn how to spell the names you are throwing at us) were ‘atrocities in the post war period’? The bombs were dropped on August 6th and August 9th 1945. The war ended on September 2nd 1945; therefore these bombings were not ‘post-war’ but perfectly legitimate actions of war.

And Korea was all down to the Yanks was it? I suppose you’re going to say they invited the North Koreans to a barbeque on the 25th June 1950 and were really surprised when they all showed up with their entire army? By the way North Korea was supported in this war with troops and equipment by those two fun loving, peace hugging countries the USSR and China!

Oh dear well I am sorry that my speeling mistacks ofeend.

The war in Europe was over in May. The USA had to be kicked by the Japanese into supporting us because of Pearl Habour. Even the US realised that the war had to be won in Europe first with the invasion of France.

Japan was their war in the end and it ended in a terrible atomic strike which was perhaps unnecessary. We should all remember that the USA is the only country to drop the big one against another country.

But what the hell was the USA doing in Korea in the first place?

All of the US armaments firms make next to nothing during peacetime.

No war, no dollar.

Same thing for the escalation of the war in Vietnam.

Look at G W Bush's war in Iraq in 2003...Haliburton and the Carlisle Group made a whole pile of money for close personal friends. That doesn't include the rest of the US military infrastructure.

I have yet to see reports of either an Iraqi or Afghani blitzkreig over Tunbridge Wells or Guildford

Really? Where were you on July 7th 2005?

What was this country doing invading another country in 2003? Beside, how many of the suicide bombers were of Iraqi or Afghani descent? All were from ex-Pakistani families, Pakistan is supposedly an ally of the West.

This doesn't include the USA's blind stance and fervent support of Israel's treatment of the Palestians since the formation of the Jewish state, which is the root of most of the problems in todays world mind set.


And what about the USSR’s wars by proxy all over the world? Practically every picture or film you see of terrorists show them with Russian weapons not American.

Well that’s enough of that now let’s go on to your childish naivety.

Did the CIA wage war in Central America with USSR made arms then? Or because it wasn't shown in film or picture we would have to guess that they were Soviet made?

Even the Ultra Conservative Governor of California Arnie Schwarzenegger perferred an Uzi 9mm and an AK47 for his films that were dedicated to world peace and harmony.

The USSR put up the Iron Curtain to protect it's own interests.

Really? So all those walls, minefields, watchtowers and electrified fences were to keep people out of the USSR? Silly me I thought it was to keep people in. Strange you think it’s alright for the USSR to invade and occupy all those countries, but you think it’s totally wrong for the Americans to support the Israelis. I wonder why you think that?

I assume that you mean invade in the same sense as our ancestors invaded and killed so many people in countries all over the world.

I think that because the US veto's every UN sanction against Israeli atrocities carried out in Palestine.

indicative of someone who perhaps should get out and embrace the world a little bit more.

Little man I have travelled this world more times than you have wiped your backside ( which judging by the amount of cr8p you are producing is quite a few times – oh I forgot I expect Mummy does it for you) and I have to say 99% of the people I have met have been just great. Of course there is always the 1% who want to murder and terrorise others – and their lame brained supporters.

I'll give you the benefit of any doubt here.

Don't have nightmares.

Never do – although I have seen things that would make an eggplant like you wet yourself!

So little man do yourself a favour and don’t try and play with the grownups until you are at least 12 – oh and do try and get the spelling right – ask an adult I’m sure they will be only too happy to help!

I'll leave the personal insults to you Bob...it seems it is all you do as far as I'm concerned

Peace and love

Derrick (the Aubergine Man)

[Errata]

My name is Bob, you may refer to me as Mr Hinton, if you can't manage Bob. Enigma provided a lot of useful information, no-one is denying that, but if we had to fight the war without that information or without guns I know what I would choose.

Great Britain made huge contributions to the war, and we would have been nowhere without their intelligence gathering forces. And we would have been nowhere without the money and the manufacturing of arms by the US. Of course, England never had a chance to arm itself properly, still being in a depression when war was declared. And the US learned everything it knows today from British intelligence services.

Of course, no force entered the war to prevent the genocide they knew was taking place, so points off for that. And in a contest of military forces, I wold choose the Diggers any day. Not for intelligence or might, but for consistently having the best intentioned force in the world. They show up for for all of the unglamorous work, the rescues, the disaster relief.

So in a contest between Great Britain and the US for contributions to WWII, all I can say (in the vernacular) is "Girls.. girls, you're both pretty"

[Derrick]

Ive highlighted the text I find particularly stupid.

Well argued

[Bob Hinton]

Really?

My name is Bob, you may refer to me as Mr Hinton, if you can't manage Bob. Enigma provided a lot of useful information, no-one is denying that, but if we had to fight the war without that information or without guns I know what I would choose.

As a matter of fact Enigma information wasn't the magic wand that a lot of people thought it was - it was certainly useful, very useful but the war was won by men with guns.

Still perhaps you were under the impression that our soldiers were taught to shoot to wing the baddies!