The Big Society

[Chris]

Not the first or last politician to do it, Chris.

Indeed - most of his parliamentary party did it at exactly the same time!

[Robert]

Not the first or last politician to do it, Chris. It always amuses me to think of the opprobrium with which "lying to the House" is viewed. Much more serious than lying to the public!

[Chris]

Since Clegg's own favoured system will produce nothing but coalitions, every promise he ever makes under such a system will have to be conditional, i.e. worthless.

In effect, that's Clegg's argument. But he's lying. In fact, this was a personal pledge about how he would vote on a specific issue if elected as an MP. The only reason it turned out to be worthless is that he broke his word.

[Robert]

Since Clegg's own favoured system will produce nothing but coalitions, every promise he ever makes under such a system will have to be conditional, i.e. worthless.

Up till now I have never knowingly answered the door to a politician canvassing on the doorstep, but I think from now on I shall promise every party my vote. Obviously I cannot foresee that half an hour before the booths close, I will find the cigarette situation far worse than I thought, and be compelled to take a walk to the newsagent.

[Limehouse]

The more I hear that line about his signed promise to his constituents "not counting" because his party didn't win an overall majority in parliament, the more I tend to agree.

After all, if he'd said at the time "but only if the Lib Dems get 325 seats," they would have been laughing too hard to put a cross on the ballot paper, and the problem wouldn't have arisen.

Hi Chris

As far as I am concerned Labout didn't win - the Tories didn't win and the Lib Dems didn't win but we've got what is effectively a Tory government - and in my book it's an unelected government.

Let's do what the good people of Egypt are doing - getting out on the streets and saying ENOUGH! GO!

Then we can try and build a REAL socialist society.

[Chris]

Well - much as I hate to say it - he should just hang.

The more I hear that line about his signed promise to his constituents "not counting" because his party didn't win an overall majority in parliament, the more I tend to agree.

After all, if he'd said at the time "but only if the Lib Dems get 325 seats," they would have been laughing too hard to put a cross on the ballot paper, and the problem wouldn't have arisen.

[Limehouse]

If Cameron should be hanging his head in shame, what should Clegg be doing?

Well - much as I hate to say it - he should just hang.

[Chris]

The trouble is politicians will keep getting elected no matter how many people don't vote for them.

[Robert]

Hi Babybird

Let's put it this way. Instead of one taxi, there are three. The first one promises to take you to Birmingham. The second to London. The third to Cardiff. You want to go to all three places for one reason or another, at one time or another, so you try all three of them.

Every taxi takes you to Much Sleeping on the Wold.

When you protest, the drivers mutter about not knowing the state of the roads, the state of their taxis, and a thousand other things when they actually made the promise.

My reaction is "Then you shouldn't have shot your mouth off." And I give up on the taxis.

You on the other hand seem to think that I am condemned to go to Much Sleeping on the Wold for all eternity. Well, maybe I am. But only because people like you keep getting into useless taxis.

[babybird67]

hi Robert

but your analogy isn't apt. Driving a taxi is not the same as governing a country. The country has to be governed somehow...you don't have to get a taxi, you can walk, get the bus or tube etc.

I'm not suggesting our system of politics is brilliant, far from it. I hate the corruption as much as you do. I'm just asking how you expect it to change if you don't make any concerted effort to change it. Just ignoring it and hoping it will change itself won't work.

And I am STILL grateful i don't live in Zimbabwe! That's not an argument that improvements cannot and should not be made in our own country. Just a glimpse of my eternal optimism I guess.

I don't think MPs should get any extra expenses. I have to pay my expenses out of my salary, which is much less than theirs, so why can't they do the same?

[Robert]

Hi Babybird

If I hailed a taxi and asked to be taken to Tottenham Court Rd, but the driver said, "I might take you there, I might not. Depends how I feel" then I would exit the taxi. That is not waiting for the taxi driver to change himself. That's giving him the best incentive to change that I can think of, i.e. no service, no custom.

Re Zimbabwe, I'm sorry but I don't buy this "count your blessings" argument. Our MPs are elected to govern the country in a fit and proper manner. If they cannot do this in a fit and proper manner, then they'll get nowhere with me if they tell me "Cheer up, at least it's not Zimbabwe."

Only the other day the MPs were saying that the current expenses regime makes it impossible for them to do their job. They're expecting the reply "better raise their expenses then." My reply is, "So why are you taking a salary for a job you admit you can't do?"

[babybird67]

hi Robert

so you're waiting for the system to change itself?

I think annual elections are a great idea.


And re: Zimbabwe, i still know where i would rather live. I can't think of one British person who would want to swap our system of politics or life over here for life over there.

[Robert]

Hi Babybird

If enough people stop voting for them they'll change their policies to ones that people want. They're not in it for principle. They're in it for money, fame and power.

Of course they'll go back on their promises as soon as they're elected. I would therefore suggest annual parliaments during the transition period to democracy.

Interesting your mentioning Mugabe. We share with Zimbabwe one salient characteristic : we've both been bankrupted by our politicians.

[babybird67]

hi Robert

I understand what you're saying but what's the alternative? We live in a putative democracy, which believe me is much better than some regimes around the world, because i would certainly choose to live here rather than Zimbabwe for example. Wouldn't you? Voting is a luxury that my fore-sisters fought and died for for me, and personally, bad though the system is, I believe in exercising the right to vote that perhaps some of us take for granted.

The point is not so much about voting per se anyway but about the viability of the liberal party, which is shot, as far as I can see.

Unless there is a complete revolution of the voting system, we are stuck with the current system we have with all its faults.

Are you doing anything to change the current system? Would be interesting if we could change it to better reflect what people really want.

[Robert]

Hi Babybird

If you're offered a choice of three different brands of sh*t, stop eating it. By voting for them you are conferring legitimacy on them. They will then cheat, rob, and even kill you for another four or five years before, much hated, they retire with a bloody nose knowing that their chance will come again when the other party has cheated, robbed and killed you for a few years. The parties accept this as all part of the game. Far from giving these people my vote, I wouldn't give them a bucket of water if they were on fire.