Burka

[Limehouse]

Ah yes. Immigrant women should be equal to western women in their freedom and opportunities--unless of course they choose to exercise their freedom by being submissive to their men. Then we should take away their freedom of choice and we should be the ones telling them how they ought to behave and dress.

Very Good point Ally, and as I have tried to point out previously, many Muslim women see the Burka as a form of liberation and freedom from the judgement often imposed by the male gaze. I personally do not see much freedom in constantly being berated for being too fat, too thin, too ugly etc which is the kind of treatment dished out to many women who have the 'freedom' to walk about uncovered.

[Bob Hinton]

No Bob,



This 'its British culture to speak to the face' is completely new to me. Ive heard individuals use it as a preference, but never expressed as a cultural thing.

Should we adopt a stiff upper lip old chap?

Monty

It's not a British thing it's a Western thing and dates back to time where the only reason a stranger had for covering his face was so that they could attack you. If whilst wearing armour you wished to signify that your intentions were peaceful you raised the visor on your helmet to show that you meant no harm.

But even before that the face in humans and animals has always been the first indicator of how the person or animal was likely to react. A dog which is snarling is intimidating - showing his teeth in an agressive manner - this is a warning. Likewise a person who is snarling is sending out the same message, but a person who is smiling generally means no harm.

When the SAS get kittted up to storm a building their costume is very carefully chosen to be the most intimidating black clothing and a completely covered face.

As for having a stiff upper lip, that's fine but your lip is stiffest due to rigor mortis. We are very tolerant of some very intolerant people - just for once in our lifetime can't we be the people who are shown respect?

[Bob Hinton]

Yeah, Bob. You can’t go anywhere in London these days without seeing Eastern Europeans offending or running riot - in between working all hours, of course, for minimum pay, doing poxy horrible jobs the British with our benefit culture don’t want or need.

Caz
X

Well I don't know about our benefit culture, certainly the gipsy Lavinia Olmazu, 30, and her boyfriend Alin Enachi, 29, who are said to have masterminded a scam by which 172 Romanians claimed £2.6million seem to have mastered it quite well

Olmazu, who was arrested last week, was working as an 'inclusivity outreach worker' to Roma gipsies for both Haringey and Waltham Forest councils in North London.

We took this person in gave her a very well paid job, accommodation everything any person could want and this is the way she shows her gratitude, taking our money out of our pockets where it is needed.

Gosh can't wait to have a few thousand more of these in this country.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0uz5fivTY

[caz]

If a Burka wearing woman were ever allowed to meet me -make up wearing,
wine sipping & fag smoking & dirty joke telling as I am- then I would be very interested in talking to her...but I feel that the male b.....d who made her
wear that Burka was making a comment about me, and the lifestyle of women in the society in which we are living.

I don't give a flying wotsit if the male b.....ds want to make a direct or indirect comment about me or my lifestyle. But frankly I doubt they give a flying wotsit either because they wouldn't want me in their afterlife anyway, and I sure as hell won't be there.

Caz, re your argument that Moslem women are unlikely to rob shopping centres :

True enough. But when airport security was at its height, they were checking everyone, weren't they? If they'd only checked Asians, that would have been "racist." Yet white people are extremely unlikely to fly planes into buildings or set off bombs on the underground (the latter is unlikely now that we have the peace deal in Northern Ireland).

Hi Robert,

Well I don't make the rules of course, and I don't always agree with how they apply them. I do resent the fact that everyone has to suffer for the sins of the few, and I do think it's a bit daft not to concentrate checks on those most likely, from past experience, to have "issues" with us that they imagine violence will address.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

We took this person in gave her a very well paid job, accommodation everything any person could want...

Gosh can't wait to have a few thousand more of these in this country.

Then it's our fault. As I say, the system often stinks. How many people wherever they were born would not help themselves if we dish it out on a plate? Not many people are as lovely and smiling and honest and generous and tolerant as we are, Bob.

Or hadn't you heard?

Love,

Caz
X

[Jenni Shelden]

I think what it comes down to is this at the end of the day, no one is stopping anyone wearing whatever they want to. This means that no one is stopping Bob from wearing a burkha.

I know plenty of Muslim women, some choose to wear some form of the veil and some do not. Like British culture, Muslim culture is not fixed by stereotypes of what people think they know.

And those who MEN who think that women who choose to wear the burkha should remove it in order to speak to them/for whatevr reason, are rather missing the point to its use in the first place, i feel.

That said, I am certainly not claiming to be an expert on the subject.

Jenni

[Robert]

The thing about this dishing money out on a plate business, is that "we" find it impossible not to. Can anyone name one party (apart from the BNP) who people could vote for to stop this? You will get the same whether it's Tory or Labour or Liberal. So unless you want to vote BNP, you're shafted.

I don't want to vote BNP, or anything else. Every time there's an election, instead of voting I relax with a book or a plate of sausages.

Limehouse, yes I knew a Polish guy who worked extremely hard. Let's not go overboard, though - they aren't all saints and we aren't all muggers. Let's not slag off the English - we have the Church of England and the Guardian to do that for us.

[anna]

Hi Robert,

I feel exactly the same as you do...I don't vote either.

Won't vote again,until this country sorts it's priorities out.

[Robert]

Hi Anna

Nor will I - which at my time of life, means never. I haven't got 200 years left on the clock.

In a few years I'll be at that time of life where if I go to someone's funeral, there won't be any point my going home!

[Bob Hinton]

Come off it

Then it's our fault. As I say, the system often stinks. How many people wherever they were born would not help themselves if we dish it out on a plate? Not many people are as lovely and smiling and honest and generous and tolerant as we are, Bob.

Or hadn't you heard?

Love,

Caz
X

No Caz it's not our fault. We gave this woman refuge, now if we hadn't then people would be shouting from the top of the rooftops how we were being cruel to people in need. We didn't dish out the benefits she defrauded the British taxpayer by running an elaborate scam. She stole from us.

If you invited someone into your house as a guest and they turned round and robbed the place, would you immediately jump up and say "Oh well that's my fault for dishing out all my posessions to him".

What disgusts me about this type of person is that if after having your hospitality abused in most disgraceful manner we say "Sorry no more Roma Gypsies here please you can't be trusted" people like her immediately take to the streets and accuse us of being racists! See photo.

In every case where the criminal is an incomer or from a recent incomer family ( say 50 years) then they should also be held to account under a policy of "Abuse of hospitality" and punished far more severely.

We extend the hand of welcome and these people are biting it. Enough!

Let us help our own first, let us help people who have spent their lives contributing to this country, let us make sure they have nice houses and good jobs, then if there is anything left in the pot throw them a few crumbs.

If you don't then how much longer is it going to be where the scenes in Ireland where the Gypsies were burnt out is going to be repeated on a much larger scale?

I am sick to death of government turning their backs on people who have really sacrificed for this country in a hurry to welcome people who just want to rob and steal f rom us. No more.

[Bob Hinton]

I think what it comes down to is this at the end of the day, no one is stopping anyone wearing whatever they want to. This means that no one is stopping Bob from wearing a burkha.

Jenni

But that's exactly the problem Jenni - they are! You try going in to a bank or a post office wearing a crash helmet and you will be told to take it off. You try wearing a hooded top in some shopping malls and you will be escorted out.

This situation is not about the Burka per se, it's about covering your face so no one can see who or what you are. If this is deemed to be unacceptable for white Anglo Saxons then it should be unacceptable for everyone.

I am against people wearing clothing that completely hides their features, whether you are a Muslim, a KKK member or even a young thug. I don't give a flying fig if Muslim women want to wear scarves over their heads, just so I can see who I am dealing with.

It is the basic unfairness of the situation that riles people.

[anna]

Know what Bob..your post 115 has really hit the nail on the head,as it's what many folk feel in this country.

Liked the term "recent incommer" aswell for those coming in over the past 50 years..and your policy idea,too.It would stop all this constant use of the word "racist",as soon as they think we step out of line as to what they wish us to accept...which for me,is nothing short of bullying.Something this country is suppose to find unacceptable.

Robert...know what you mean. x

[caz]

But that's exactly the problem Jenni - they are! You try going in to a bank or a post office wearing a crash helmet and you will be told to take it off. You try wearing a hooded top in some shopping malls and you will be escorted out.

This situation is not about the Burka per se, it's about covering your face so no one can see who or what you are. If this is deemed to be unacceptable for white Anglo Saxons then it should be unacceptable for everyone.

I am against people wearing clothing that completely hides their features, whether you are a Muslim, a KKK member or even a young thug. I don't give a flying fig if Muslim women want to wear scarves over their heads, just so I can see who I am dealing with.

It is the basic unfairness of the situation that riles people.

The basic unfairness to who, Bob? You don't think it's 'unfair' to crash helmet and hooded top wearers to have to take them off in certain circumstances. In fact you think that's perfectly fair, and I would agree with you. So what is it to you, or the crash helmet and hooded top wearers, if other groups, including burka wearing women, have not been subjected to the same strictures, presumably because they have not been identified as a significant threat to anyone's personal safety?

Is it fair to strip the burka from every decent, law-abiding Muslim woman in Britain who currently wears one, whether it is to bring them in line with those who do pose such a threat, or because one in a million burkas may be worn for the sole purpose of committing a crime? You are not going to prevent or deter this criminal from offending by banning the burka, any more than banning guns will stop a determined sicko going apeshit with one.

Why are you implying that only white Anglo Saxon crash helmet and hooded top wearers have to put up with this perfectly fair treatment, while everyone else gets a free pass? And why would you need to see who you are dealing with, if you already know it's going to be another of those Muslim women who refuse to respect your white Anglo Saxon culture?

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

And a traveller fell among thieves who stripped him of his raiment. And behold, some people passed by on the other side. And behold, some people even passed by on the same side.

But lo, a Samaritan cometh and saith, "Thou poor sod. I will help thee." And the traveller smileth for he knoweth that the Samaritan is exceeding rich. And behold, the Samaritan findeth a poor man and saith, "Give unto me thy money
that I may help a poor traveller, for I am a compassionate man." And the poor man answereth, "Thou hast thy own money to help him with." And lo, the Samaritan groweth exceeding wroth and saith, "Give me thy money or I will bash thy head and cast thee into jail, thou wretch." And the poor man giveth his money.

And the Samaritan was a very compassionate man. And lo, his OBE was in the post.

[Rubyretro]

I feel exactly the same as you do...I don't vote either.

Won't vote again,until this country sorts it's priorities out.

[/QUOTE]

Anna-you SHOULD vote : women -people- have fought hard to give you the right to vote and you owe it to them to use your vote.

If you don't vote, then you can't complain if the political party which gets in
doesn't suit you.

By not voting you are inviting a situation as in the French elections of 2002, where the Left were either apathetic in the first round(or didn't find Jospin 'Left' enough), and found themselves faced with the repugnant choice of Le Pen (extreme Rght) or Chirac (Right)

-and so the Left had to bite the bullet and vote Right (getting Chirac elected with 81.21% !).

.. you don't even get a 'second chance' in the UK, and might find the BNP in power !!!

It seems to me that Britain gripes ceaselessy against the govenment but doesn't like voting, nor being interested in Politics -

where are all your militant students ? Our students are often on the streets 'demonstrating' ; that's because they interest themselvesin the mooted 'laws' which will effect them, they read the 'small print' and they feel involved. I participate in a forum devoted to Fashion, of which a majority are students -quite apart from the fact that they can't string a sentence together (yes ! worse than Me, Caz -and I left school at 16),
they have no interest whatsoever in the political future of the UK...yet they are the people who will soon be running the place.

Anna- those kids get their apathy from their parents..we owe it to our children to show them that living in a democracy is a privilege that our forefathers (mothers !) earned us,
and we are obliged to use our votes !