Manager Charged with Involuntary Manslaughter in Suicide Death of Bullied Teen

[Pcdunn]

This case happened in California in 2015. The young man belonged to two groups protected by most harassment policies, being African-American and an Asperger's patient.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...289662711.html

The disturbing thing is the company's "ritual" of publicly putting an employee in handcuffs in a mock arrest if they are suspected of theft. One wonders what sort of proof was required that the person was a thief, or if another worker's word is sufficient.

[Pcdunn]

Depends upon the laws in the state...

This thread has taken a different direction from what I thought it would be when I posted the story. I simply can't see how this woman can be held responsible for the boy's death from a legal perspective. Even if they can prove she did in fact bully him how can they prove that it was her specific bullying that led him to do what he did in light of the fact that other people bullied him as well? And then of course you have the basic question of whether or not bullying constitutes a crime.

c.d.

This may help.

http://www.workplacebullying.org/cat...bullying-laws/

There are also several state laws against bullying directed at children in schools.

As for the case, I don't know the details of the law they are using or the witness reports, and it may well fail. But I think from the little the article states about the manager's behavior, she crossed the line with her employee. I don't think throwing food at people is approved leadership, and I blame her company for training her poorly.

As for what is bullying, most Human Services departments can provide you with a definition and a list of traits which constitute workplace bullying.

[c.d.]

This thread has taken a different direction from what I thought it would be when I posted the story. I simply can't see how this woman can be held responsible for the boy's death from a legal perspective. Even if they can prove she did in fact bully him how can they prove that it was her specific bullying that led him to do what he did in light of the fact that other people bullied him as well? And then of course you have the basic question of whether or not bullying constitutes a crime.

c.d.

[Pcdunn]

Confirmation bias means all is futile

Plenty of bullies in Ripperology too.....I think we all need a safe space.....wait.. Pub Talk is the safe space.... OH NO!!!!!!!!!

Steadmund Brand

Steadman, you crack me up sometimes.

I read an article yesterday in the New Yorker that explains why Casebook forums will contain threads full of arguing. It seems that even when presented with facts that a person's viewpoint on any issue is wrong, people usually refuse to change their minds, and in fact will simply become more entrenched in their belief.

They say it's because human beings evolved to be social.

[Pcdunn]

I'm another chubby kid who gained weight as an adult, and have diabetes. Have made some strides with losing weight, but it takes time.

I think "sizeism" is still out there, but there are encouraging signs that diversity experts are recognizing it as another source of bullying.

[Steadmund Brand]

Plenty of bullies in Ripperology too.....I think we all need a safe space.....wait.. Pub Talk is the safe space.... OH NO!!!!!!!!!

Steadmund Brand

[GUT]

You and me Steadmund. I have been fat or obese most of my life - wish I wasn't, but it is so. And I had plenty of crap from bullies from grade school through college. In fact, to this day when I think of my school days I still think of those creeps. But the odd thing is that the internet sometimes makes wonder about them. Recently I have been in a nostalgia kick and started looking up high school and college acquaintances on the internet to see what became of them (if I can). It amazed me that one of the lowlifes I knew must have pulled himself together. He became a master sergeant in the Air Force, lived in Florida, and died their greatly lamented by friends and his family. Totally unexpected by me.

I guess there is always another side to these issues - what makes a bully a bully, and why do they need to build self-esteem that way? Naturally as a victim you won't care, but with time you might consider it.

Jeff

So true Jeff, I get a bit peeved at times at the anti discrimination and anti bullying campaigns that never mention being "picked on" for being fat.

You hear about sportspeople being disciples for calling some one one of the derogatory terms for homosexual, but never hear mention of anyone being called to task for calling someone a "fat....."

In my opinion anything that makes you different can make you a target for bullying.

[GUT]

This is a topic that has me conflicted, being a "liberal" (or what use to be one... today's snowflake liberals make me ashamed of the label...but I digress) and I do feel bad for people who are picked on... but hell, we all were as kids...ever kid is... some worse than others, sure, I myself as a youngster was a fat kid with a stutter....I took a lot of abuse... but I never killed myself.....I took up boxing...not to beat up bullies, but A- because I loved the Sport, B- it got me in shape (which I am not in anymore as an older man) and C- taught me discipline and self respect and most importantly SOCIAL CONTACT.....too many kids these days are killing themselves or being medicated and treated due to "bulling".. some on line.. the kids who kill themselves over being bullied on Facebook!!! seriously... not totally their fault...they are not taught how to socially interact any longer, and this whole "everyone is a winner, and every child is perfect" mentality has really hurt kids far more then it helped them....growing up playing sports, like baseball taught me how not only to play with others.. but most importantly HOW TO LOSE....yes folks...we were taught how to lose, and how to deal with losing....something this generation(s) don't know how to cope with...sad really....what needs to change is the coddling and the sense of entitlement these kids have....
I am not saying this sad boy wow killed himself had a sense of entitlement....but he didn't know how to deal with adversity properly... and that saddens me beyond description....it's not his fault, he is a victim of his times...but the pendulum always swings back the other way....I hope for the sake of these kids it does soon... I am really tired of seeing these terrible stories

Steadmund Brand

Well said.

And I don't know about other places but here it is starting in school.

Can't tell kids their answer is wrong, each kid has to get an award through the year, and on and on, can't risk damaging their delicate self esteem.

People need to realise that you can't win all the time at everything. I suspect it is why many "celebrities" (of all types) suicide.

[Patrick S]

You and me Steadmund. I have been fat or obese most of my life - wish I wasn't, but it is so. And I had plenty of crap from bullies from grade school through college. In fact, to this day when I think of my school days I still think of those creeps. But the odd thing is that the internet sometimes makes wonder about them. Recently I have been in a nostalgia kick and started looking up high school and college acquaintances on the internet to see what became of them (if I can). It amazed me that one of the lowlifes I knew must have pulled himself together. He became a master sergeant in the Air Force, lived in Florida, and died their greatly lamented by friends and his family. Totally unexpected by me.

I guess there is always another side to these issues - what makes a bully a bully, and why do they need to build self-esteem that way? Naturally as a victim you won't care, but with time you might consider it.

Jeff

What makes a bully? Dipshit parents. I've been coaching kids in baseball, football, basketball since my son was 5. He's 12 now. I started noticing bullies among the group around age 8. Usually there are one or two per team. My current basketball team has two. In EVERY case, and I mean EVERY case, when I've met the parents, they all share a few notable traits. The mother worships the ground the kid walks on and has completely unrealistic expectations of her son's athletic ability and future in sports. She's always talking about private instruction for this, working with a trainer for that, scholarships, etc. She's also completely uninterested or deluded when I try to talk about what it means to be a good teammate, how to compete without showing up the opposition, and how to conduct one's self on the floor/field. The father is a never-was athlete, not very social, never helps out at practice, never introduces himself to me, and, as a RULE thinks he's a tough guy. It's like meeting a grown man who still acts like he's in high school. He's almost always the guy in the stands screaming at officials, or at me, raising hell, acting like an idiot.

I have developed a very thin skin for the male component of this poison pair of child rearing and have taken great delight in calling them on their crap anytime I can. I've gotten confrontational a few times and learned another hard-and-fast rule: They're all cowards. All talk. All mouth. Call them on it and they'll sit quietly like the turds they are.

[Mayerling]

This is a topic that has me conflicted, being a "liberal" (or what use to be one... today's snowflake liberals make me ashamed of the label...but I digress) and I do feel bad for people who are picked on... but hell, we all were as kids...ever kid is... some worse than others, sure, I myself as a youngster was a fat kid with a stutter....I took a lot of abuse... but I never killed myself.....I took up boxing...not to beat up bullies, but A- because I loved the Sport, B- it got me in shape (which I am not in anymore as an older man) and C- taught me discipline and self respect and most importantly SOCIAL CONTACT.....too many kids these days are killing themselves or being medicated and treated due to "bulling".. some on line.. the kids who kill themselves over being bullied on Facebook!!! seriously... not totally their fault...they are not taught how to socially interact any longer, and this whole "everyone is a winner, and every child is perfect" mentality has really hurt kids far more then it helped them....growing up playing sports, like baseball taught me how not only to play with others.. but most importantly HOW TO LOSE....yes folks...we were taught how to lose, and how to deal with losing....something this generation(s) don't know how to cope with...sad really....what needs to change is the coddling and the sense of entitlement these kids have....
I am not saying this sad boy wow killed himself had a sense of entitlement....but he didn't know how to deal with adversity properly... and that saddens me beyond description....it's not his fault, he is a victim of his times...but the pendulum always swings back the other way....I hope for the sake of these kids it does soon... I am really tired of seeing these terrible stories

Steadmund Brand

You and me Steadmund. I have been fat or obese most of my life - wish I wasn't, but it is so. And I had plenty of crap from bullies from grade school through college. In fact, to this day when I think of my school days I still think of those creeps. But the odd thing is that the internet sometimes makes wonder about them. Recently I have been in a nostalgia kick and started looking up high school and college acquaintances on the internet to see what became of them (if I can). It amazed me that one of the lowlifes I knew must have pulled himself together. He became a master sergeant in the Air Force, lived in Florida, and died their greatly lamented by friends and his family. Totally unexpected by me.

I guess there is always another side to these issues - what makes a bully a bully, and why do they need to build self-esteem that way? Naturally as a victim you won't care, but with time you might consider it.

Jeff

[Abby Normal]

Sad story all the way round.

Now that bullying has been given raised awareness these past years I see that kids are more sensitive to it and generally look down on it and are now more active to stick up for other kids being bullied.

a lot different when I was a kid. man it was brutal-Lord of the flies stuff.

all the social media stuff exacerbates bullying, but in general, as a society I think we are getting better. Hopefully this story gets a lot of attention and helps alleviate.

[Robert]

To modify your sign-off, Stead : the herd instinct is a terrible thing, a lie sold to the people as a sign of good fellowship.

[Steadmund Brand]

This is a topic that has me conflicted, being a "liberal" (or what use to be one... today's snowflake liberals make me ashamed of the label...but I digress) and I do feel bad for people who are picked on... but hell, we all were as kids...ever kid is... some worse than others, sure, I myself as a youngster was a fat kid with a stutter....I took a lot of abuse... but I never killed myself.....I took up boxing...not to beat up bullies, but A- because I loved the Sport, B- it got me in shape (which I am not in anymore as an older man) and C- taught me discipline and self respect and most importantly SOCIAL CONTACT.....too many kids these days are killing themselves or being medicated and treated due to "bulling".. some on line.. the kids who kill themselves over being bullied on Facebook!!! seriously... not totally their fault...they are not taught how to socially interact any longer, and this whole "everyone is a winner, and every child is perfect" mentality has really hurt kids far more then it helped them....growing up playing sports, like baseball taught me how not only to play with others.. but most importantly HOW TO LOSE....yes folks...we were taught how to lose, and how to deal with losing....something this generation(s) don't know how to cope with...sad really....what needs to change is the coddling and the sense of entitlement these kids have....
I am not saying this sad boy wow killed himself had a sense of entitlement....but he didn't know how to deal with adversity properly... and that saddens me beyond description....it's not his fault, he is a victim of his times...but the pendulum always swings back the other way....I hope for the sake of these kids it does soon... I am really tired of seeing these terrible stories

Steadmund Brand

[Pcdunn]

True, Ginger. I think the charge against the manager is a bit unfair, as at 21 she is probably not experienced enough or well-trained enough to know you don't throw sandwiches at an employee who made an error. Her chain restaurant is at fault, too. As are many other people and institutions in the young man's life.

[Ginger]

I agree. He was described as being overweight and having a speech impediment. That may be invite abuse, but is it really his fault?

Probably not his fault, no, and people ought to try to be nicer, but...

Human nature is what it is. We're social animals, and to be fully a part of the herd, you have to conform to certain expected behaviours. If you won't, or can't, do that, then people want you to go away. If you won't, or can't, go away (for example, "mainstreaming" of emotionally damaged children in public schools), then people are going to resort to increasingly negative behaviour towards you, in an effort to make you stop trying to interact with them. I can cite recent examples of such behaviour from this very board.