Valerie Storie's 3 part story as published in 'Today' magazine, June 1962

[Spitfire]

The modern rules on ID parades can be found in Annex B to Code D of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Paragraphs 10 and 18 would appear to be relevant if the parade had been held today.


10. If the suspect has an unusual physical feature, e.g., a facial scar, tattoo or distinctive hairstyle or hair colour which cannot be replicated on other members of the identification parade, steps may be taken to conceal the location of that feature on the suspect and the other members of the identification parade if the suspect and their solicitor, or appropriate adult, agree. For example, by use of a plaster or a hat, so that all members of the identification parade resemble each other in general appearance.

and

18. If the witness wishes to hear any identification parade member speak, adopt any specified posture or move, they shall first be asked whether they can identify any person(s) on the identification parade on the basis of appearance only. When the request is to hear members of the identification parade speak, the witness shall be reminded that the participants in the identification parade have been chosen on the basis of physical appearance only. Members of the identification parade may then be asked to comply with the witness’ request to hear them speak, see them move or adopt any specified posture

Code D

[OneRound]

Cheers, Graham.

I would have thought the most likely explanation for Valerie Storie requiring the men on the ID parade to speak was because she had been told of that right by Acott or one of the senior policemen organising that parade. Rather than being pro-active and doing his utmost on his client's behalf, Kleinmann appears to have been staggeringly inert here.

Best regards,

OneRound

[Graham]

Hello OR,

a fair point, but did the police know before they started seeking volunteers for the ID parade that Valerie would be asking them to speak? I honestly don't know. If anyone apart from Valerie knew, then it would have been Kleinmann, Hanratty's solicitor. Again, I wouldn't know if it was his duty to inform the police.

Graham

[OneRound]

Hi Graham,

I agree with you about Dutton being some distance short of an impressive witness. However, in view of Prof. Fry's comment that Hanratty's ''mode of speech was shared by very many thousands of Londoners'', I can't but consider it unfair that none of them (apparently) were alongside Hanratty on the identification parade in which voice recognition played such a significant part.

Best regards,

OneRound

PS Julie - thanks for alerting us to the death of Valerie Storie on the other thread. If possible, can you please correct the spelling of her surname in that thread's title - just feel in my nitpicking way that we somehow owe her that, thanks.

[Graham]

I did miss out the word 'not', you're correct.

With regard to Hanratty having an "Irish or Cockney accent" or "a mixture of the two", nowhere in any of the literature concerning the A6 have I read that Hanratty had anything other than an accent typical of a young Londoner at that time*. In other words, he had no trace of an Irish accent. Mr Dutton was, doubtless, swayed by press publicity concerning Hanratty's Irish parentage and also the fact that Hanratty is an Irish name. Anything but an impressive witness, I'd say.

*JH's defence arranged for him to be examined by Prof. Dennis Fry of the Phonetics Dept at University College, London. Here's what Prof Fry said:

In my opinion his speech is in every way typical of a man with his background and upbringing; his pronunciation is that of a boy of low educational attainment brought up in London. I could not detect any feature in his pronunciation which could be regarded as a personal peculiarity. His mode of speech was shared by very many thousands of Londoners

Graham

[Sherlock Houses]

Indeed, JH was in Rhyl during the second week of July. I mis-read my notes. No argument that he was in Liverpool on the 26th of July, as he was interviewed by police following a scuffle with two men outside a cafe. He also gave his real name to the police, somewhat unusually.

The thing is, the new bookie's was open by the 25th July, so had Hanratty been in Kinmel Street either at this time, or as he claimed on the 22-23 August, he would have seen the shop and the illuminated sign. Given that he very much liked a flutter, it is very likely he'd have mentioned these features as part of establishing his Ingledene alibi.

He recalled trying to sell a watch to Mr Kempt in Liverpool, but at no time did he mention Mr Dutton who claimed a young man tried to sell him a watch in Rhyl on 23 August. Mr Dutton did say that he probably wouldn't be able to recognise the man again, so his evidence would have been of doubtful worth. Hanratty wasn't the only young man trying to sell watches to people on the street in 1961.

Graham

I think you've repeated the error inadvertently, Graham, by missing the word 'not' out in your first sentence.

As stated previously, Raymond Corbett, manager of the betting shop at the time, said that the illuminated sign was erected a few weeks after August 4th and he was unable to find out if it was up before or after August 22nd. A few weeks after August 4th could mean late August or even early September. Inconclusive evidence certainly.

James's brother, Michael, told me that as far as he knew James didn't use street betting shops, it was only greyhound racing that he betted on and he did this in person at the greyhound stadiums he frequented.

As for Hanratty apparently not telling his defence team about trying to sell the gold watch to Mr Dutton, it is very likely that Mr Dutton was just one of several people he approached on Rhyl High Street trying to sell the stolen watch to.

Mr Dutton I find a very impressive witness, he was certainly no publicity seeker. He was able to pinpoint the date of his encounter with the young man. While it 's probably true that other young men would have been trying to sell watches on the streets of Britain in 1961, how many, sounding "possibly Irish or cockney or a mixture of the two " [Mr Dutton's own words] would have been trying to sell a gold watch in Rhyl High Street on Wednesday, August 23rd 1961, dressed in "a two-toned, dark grey and light grey suit." ?

What is also impressive about Mr Dutton is that although he couldn't [apart from the suit] describe the young man he believed that if presented with Hanratty he would be able to say that he'd never seen him before or that he was the young man who offered to sell him a gold watch.

[uncle_adolph]

The thing is, the new bookie's was open by the 25th July, so had Hanratty been in Kinmel Street either at this time, or as he claimed on the 22-23 August, he would have seen the shop and the illuminated sign. Given that he very much liked a flutter, it is very likely he'd have mentioned these features as part of establishing his Ingledene alibi.
Graham

I'm sure I read somewhere that whilst the bookies was opened in late July the illuminated sign wasn't put up until some weeks later. There was certainly some doubt raised about it being there when Hanratty said he visited.

[NickB]

On another matter ...

Do you know when Acott visited Fisher/Slack?

Woffinden says it was between when Hanratty was arrested and interviewed. This cannot be true as Acott spent that time driving up to Blackpool. The statement from Fisher, in which he denied having any discussion about guns, is dated 26-Oct. So I think it likely that Acott did not interview him until then.

On 11-Oct Acott had visited Lanigan who told him that he discussed with Hanratty getting guns to do a hold up in Wembley. This would have been fresh in Acott’s mind when he interviewed Hanratty the following day.

What may have happened is that Acott dropped hints that he had been speaking to a friend of his who had told him about a gun discussion (meaning Lanigan) and Hanratty jumped to the conclusion that he meant Fisher. Acott then got an admission of two gun discussions for the price of one, so to speak.

[Graham]

Hanratty said: 'the man outside the billiards hall in Lime Street is always there, he stands on the steps". He would not have known this from personal experience, so it is indicative that he is repeating someone else’s story.

It seems that Hanratty then asked his friends if they had any experiences that could be passed off as his

Quite possible, Nick. However, JH was in Liverpool both before and after the murder week, so it is also possible that he himself saw Mr Kempt, who regularly stood outside his billiards hall throughout the day. He stated that he had no idea of the day, date or month, except that it was in the evening when a young man came up the steps and asked if he would buy a watch.

One rather odd aspect of the whole alibi question is JH's inability to locate Terry Evans during his claimed visit of 22-24 August. He couldn't even recall Evans' real name to his defence, but called him 'John'. Evans was a very well-known local character who drove an old London taxi and who had a star tatooed on his forehead. JH had stayed in his house (and nicked a pair of his shoes) for one night during his July visit to Rhyl. And yet he claims he couldn't find Evans again less than a month later? Strange how when JH knew that the police wished to interview him about the A6 he scarpered to Liverpool arriving on 7 October, and was able to go straight to his criminal acquaintances there with no trouble at all, in order to offer them a bribe to confirm his 'alibi'.

Graham

[NickB]

He recalled trying to sell a watch to Mr Kempt in Liverpool

Hanratty said: 'the man outside the billiards hall in Lime Street is always there, he stands on the steps". He would not have known this from personal experience, so it is indicative that he is repeating someone else’s story.

When Hanratty phoned Acott from Liverpool he could not provide Acott with anyone who saw him in Liverpool during the murder week apart from the friends he would not name.

Acott: Is there any other person who could say he saw you in Liverpool after you travelled there from the Vienna?
Hanratty: No.
Acott: Can you tell me any place you went to during those five days in Liverpool or anything you bought that might help me check your story?
Hanratty: No.

It seems that Hanratty then asked his friends if they had any experiences that could be passed off as his.

[Graham]

Indeed, JH was in Rhyl during the second week of July. I mis-read my notes. No argument that he was in Liverpool on the 26th of July, as he was interviewed by police following a scuffle with two men outside a cafe. He also gave his real name to the police, somewhat unusually.

The thing is, the new bookie's was open by the 25th July, so had Hanratty been in Kinmel Street either at this time, or as he claimed on the 22-23 August, he would have seen the shop and the illuminated sign. Given that he very much liked a flutter, it is very likely he'd have mentioned these features as part of establishing his Ingledene alibi.

He recalled trying to sell a watch to Mr Kempt in Liverpool, but at no time did he mention Mr Dutton who claimed a young man tried to sell him a watch in Rhyl on 23 August. Mr Dutton did say that he probably wouldn't be able to recognise the man again, so his evidence would have been of doubtful worth. Hanratty wasn't the only young man trying to sell watches to people on the street in 1961.

Graham

[NickB]

Brenda Harris, Mrs Grace Jones's daughter, stated on camera that Hanratty "was the only man that had breakfast in our own living room, no-one else had breakfast that season in our own living room"

Brenda Jones said that because all the bedrooms were occupied Hanratty stayed in the green bathroom. Her claim that he only knew about the back yard because he had breakfast in that room is not borne out by his testimony.

Hanratty: “In the morning I looked out of the window and found a small courtyard.”
Swanwick: “Is that the front or the back?
Hanrattty: “That is at the back, sir.”

If you believe his repeated assertions that his bedroom was a back room (in the same way that you believe him saying he had breakfast in a back room) then his bedroom was not the green bathroom.

[Sherlock Houses]

By the way, the Daily Mail report on Valerie Storie’s death has a photo of Hanratty showing lots of freckles.

It's refreshing to see that someone else has remarked upon the unmistakably freckled face of James Hanratty.................

[Sherlock Houses]

Hanratty couldn't remember anything from his "trip to Rhyl" on and after 22 August, for the simple reason he was never there at that time. However, he did recall events and places from his earlier visit to Rhyl during the second week of July, and tried without success to transpose these events onto his imagined later "visit". He was unable to recall the betting shop sign from when he was in Rhyl in July either because the shop wasn't yet open or he went nowhere near Kinmel Street.

Graham

Hanratty didn't visit Rhyl during the second week of July. He was cleaning windows in London at that time, just like good old George used to. With a very noticeably freckled/tanned face as the result of 3 months outdoor work with his father. Definitely not a pale-face, like the A6 gunman. He did however visit Rhyl on July 25th, for which there is authenticated proof. Just like there is authenticated proof that he was in Liverpool the next day [July 26th] having spent the previous night at Terry Evans's house.

For a supposedly "imagined later visit" I find it quite uncanny that he was able to recall so much accurate information about a boarding house that he never stepped foot inside of.

Brenda Harris, Mrs Grace Jones's daughter, stated on camera that Hanratty "was the only man that had breakfast in our own living room, no-one else had breakfast that season in our own living room"
If Hanratty wasn't that man then it's rather strange that no man has ever stepped forward claiming to be that Ingledene guest.

[Graham]

I thought Gillbanks came across Ingledene on the morning of 6-Feb-62, the day after he had been asked to go to Rhyl.

I think Hanratty first dropped his Rhyl 'alibi' onto Sherrard on 29 January. Sherrard was then obliged to draw up a document for Hanratty to sign in which he agreed to full responsibility for his change of alibi, and then to contact Joe Gillbanks to ask him to leave Liverpool and go to Rhyl. I can't recall reading on what date Gillbanks actually arrived in Rhyl, but even if it was during 5 February he must have knocked on the door of a fair few guest-houses prior to arriving at Ingledene. He reported to Sherrard that there were 'several hundred' guest-houses in the vicinity of the station - Hanratty claimed he could hear the trains in his B&B. I also have a feeling that even after interviewing Mrs Jones he carried on his search of Rhyl's B&B's.

Graham