Mail's feature of 1999 on Hanratty by Roger Matthews

[NickB]

The man questioned at Cannon Row police station on Sept 7th must have been someone other than Alphon. He arrived at the police station late on the 6th and was released (without charge) on the 8th.

[Sherlock Houses]

Even so, Alphon was placed on an i.d. parade reference the assault of Mrs Dalal, who picked him out, but two men who supplied him with copies of Old Moore's Alamanac which he sold, stated that he had been with them at the time of the assault on Mrs Dalal.

This is something I find rather puzzling Graham. If, as Derrick states, Alphon was the unnamed suspect [in Woffinden's book] who was still at Cannon Row police station at 2pm on Thursday, Sept 7th, he could not have been Mrs Dalal's attacker. I say this because Mrs Dalal's assailant arrived at her home at 1.30pm that same day. It is my understanding that Mrs Dalal's home in Upper Richmond Road was over 6 miles away from Cannon Row police station in Whitehall, a journey of about 30 minutes or so. This would also suggest that the two men who said Alphon was in their shop in the City of London at the time of Mrs Dalal's attack were either mistaken or lying.

Something doesn't add up here.

[GUT]

G'day Derrick

What Aussie Twang

Thanks for the link to the appeal judgement, I'll work through it.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi All, re Libel laws : I asked my friend-a childhood friend as it happens -who happened to have been a close colleague of Matthews in the force and is still a friend of Matthews .He has had a recent conversation with him about the case ---so I asked him why it was Matthews could not name names---quick as lightening he answered-'because of the laws of libel'.Now I happen to know who two of these people out of the three were from quite another source and two are now dead and have been for a long time -----but the third person has not been named which could suggest the person is still alive

ps Hi Graham-yes I think everybody was surprised the bans have been lifted-good eh!

[Graham]

Why did the cases in room 24 lead the police to Alphon and not originally J Ryan. Again...what do you think?

Because further to Alphon's questioning after he was interviewed reference his conduct at The Alexandra Court, he freely admitted to the police that he had stayed at The Vienna on the night of the murder. However, it was soon established that he had slept in Room 6 at The Vienna, whilst a "J Ryan" had occupied Room 24.

Even so, Alphon was placed on an i.d. parade reference the assault of Mrs Dalal, who picked him out, but two men who supplied him with copies of Old Moore's Alamanac which he sold, stated that he had been with them at the time of the assault on Mrs Dalal. Alphon was then taken to Guy's Hospital the next day and placed on an i.d. parade before Valerie Storie, who failed to pick him out as the A6 killer. That, to all intents and purposes, ended the police's interest in Peter Alphon who, however, stated publicly that he had been scared out of his wits following his voluntary surrender to the police at Scotland Yard (prior to which he had cannily informed the Daily Express what he was about to do.

Hope this helps.

Graham

PS: only yesterday did I discover that I have been un-banned from the A6 thread. No-one told me that I had.

[Derrick]

Hi Del,

Which one is it? They are mutually exclusive...

No forensic evidence or cartridge cases at the Vienna?

KR,
Vic.

I don't know, what do you think?

Why did the cases in room 24 lead the police to Alphon and not originally J Ryan. Again...what do you think?

Besides, they was never any other forensic evidence viz the car!

[Victor]

Hi Del,

Which one is it? They are mutually exclusive...

The discovery of the cartridge cases at the Vienna on the 11th September was never reported at the time. The police were obviously keeping that one very close to their chest. But what is not in doubt is that in the 10 days that followed Acott had decided that Alphon was their man and, unusually, named him as the man they wanted to talk to.

So when Alphon was not picked out by anyone, the police, without any forensic evidence to go by, just went back to the Vienna Hotel.

No forensic evidence or cartridge cases at the Vienna?

KR,
Vic.

[Derrick]

Thank you Del for clarifying this for me. I've often wondered if this mystery suspect could have been Alphon. Upon re-reading Bob Woffinden's fine book on the A6 murder he states the following about this Sept 7th incident (page 53).........."Although the London evening papers, which were always on sale from mid-morning, were creating the impression that it was all over, nothing more was heard from this suspect."

It would seem from reading this that Woffinden, as late as 1999, was unaware that this Sept 7th suspect was Alphon.

Is it possible that more than one suspect was interviewed that particular day ?

.

Hi Sherlock
From what I have read from the press articles in the period from the murder until Alphon walked into Scotland Yard on the night of the 22nd September the police interviewed and released God only knows how many people.

In fact, the day after the identikit pictures were issued some 400 people contacted the police saying that they had seen the man!

The discovery of the cartridge cases at the Vienna on the 11th September was never reported at the time. The police were obviously keeping that one very close to their chest. But what is not in doubt is that in the 10 days that followed Acott had decided that Alphon was their man and, unusually, named him as the man they wanted to talk to.

So when Alphon was not picked out by anyone, the police, without any forensic evidence to go by, just went back to the Vienna Hotel.

Now, call me old-fashioned, but if Hanratty really was the A6 Murderer what are the chances of stumbling across him completely by accident only because he had stayed at the same doss house as the police's previous, and only, suspect the night before him? Mind-boggling.

As for Woffinden's lack of knowledge on this...no idea.

Del

[Derrick]

G'day Derrick

Can you please point me in the direction of the full appeal judgement I've only seen excerpts?

Hi Gut
Do I detect a slight Aussie twang in your salutation eh?

Here is a link:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/1141.html

HTH
Del

[Sherlock Houses]

Hi Sherlock (sounds good saying that)
That was Alphon...see paragraph 37 of the appeal judgement: it reads thus;
HTH
Del

Thank you Del for clarifying this for me. I've often wondered if this mystery suspect could have been Alphon. Upon re-reading Bob Woffinden's fine book on the A6 murder he states the following about this Sept 7th incident (page 53).........."Although the London evening papers, which were always on sale from mid-morning, were creating the impression that it was all over, nothing more was heard from this suspect."

It would seem from reading this that Woffinden, as late as 1999, was unaware that this Sept 7th suspect was Alphon.

Is it possible that more than one suspect was interviewed that particular day ?

.

[GUT]

G'day Derrick

Can you please point me in the direction of the full appeal judgement I've only seen excerpts?

[Derrick]

.....In the days following the murder, before Alphon became their chief suspect, the police must have questioned several possible suspects.
On Sept 6th/7th 1961, for example, a mystery man was questioned for a lengthy 16 hours before being released. Mr Matthews, having had access to a large number of police files during his long investigation, would probably have learned who this man was. Who knows, perhap this particular suspect is the one Mr Matthews is hinting at.

Hi Sherlock (sounds good saying that)
That was Alphon...see paragraph 37 of the appeal judgement: it reads thus;

Given the evidence of what was found at the Vienna Hotel, on or about the 22 September 1961, the police made a public appeal for Peter Alphon to contact them. As a result, he voluntarily presented himself to the police on 23 September; he had already been interviewed on 27 August and 7 September and he was interviewed again. He was then put on two identity parades. The first was on the 23 September (held at Cannon Row Police Station) when Edward Blackhall, James Trower and Harold Hirons (who was a garage attendant who served a light coloured Morris Minor with 2 gallons of petrol at about midnight on the night in question) attended. John Skillett was away and did not attend. Valerie Storie attended the second parade on 24 September 1961 at Guy’s Hospital. No witness connected with the murder picked out Mr Alphon. Valerie Storie picked out a man who was in fact a volunteer; there is an issue about what was said of his description (Ground 4).

HTH
Del

[Sherlock Houses]

.....In the days following the murder, before Alphon became their chief suspect, the police must have questioned several possible suspects.
On Sept 6th/7th 1961, for example, a mystery man was questioned for a lengthy 16 hours before being released. Mr Matthews, having had access to a large number of police files during his long investigation, would probably have learned who this man was. Who knows, perhap this particular suspect is the one Mr Matthews is hinting at.

[GUT]

Thinking about Hanratty, a couple of things occur to me.

It has been said that his school declared him uneducatable when he was 11 and then he had a nasty head injury when 15, wonder what if any contribution this had.

More importantly, to my mind, that change of alibi half way through the case must have caused the Jury real doubts, "I was in Liverpool at the time of the murder.... oh no wasn't I was in Wales." Not a great look.

[GUT]

G'day Sherlock Houses

Welcome to casebook, enjoy.

I love the name by the way.