A6 -location of scene and 2nd appeal

[Stevo7395]

Route to Clophill and

So Nat,are you saying from Slough they drove Slough then to Heathrow (a London airport ) then through west and North London and then to say Edgware/Barnet area and then north onto the A6 from Barnet upto London Colney (now A1081 I think ) then Harpenden,Luton to Clophill or did they take the lanes from Slough to Watford and then St Albans to the A6. Sorry to sound confused, I'm sure I saw something that VS thought she was in Watford but the Police proved it was St Albans and not Watford they went through ?

The other bit that puzzles me is that whatever route was taken by the suspect afterwards to end up on the borders of London and Essex from Clophill would have to have gone through some busy towns and roads even by 1961's standards surely more people would have seen or noticed the car if the standard of driving was bad and by someone who had to ask how to operate the car.
I'm not suggesting it was JH but he was a car thief I'm told.On the other side of the debate why would this couple who witnessed the bad driving in Clophill just be dismissed by Beds Police ? Back then the Police were perhaps more respected than they are now and I'd find it unusual that a local couple in that village would not have been known by their local Bobby who would have named them to his/her superiors had they refused to give their details.....that doesn't make sense either or was their sighting dismissed by the Police because it didn't fit what they had in mind once they had gone after JH.

I'll no doubt get shot down in flames on this but trying to learn more all the time !

Cheers for now and Julie and Graham and all who've responded, thanks,

Steve

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Graham,
Its an exceedingly popular Summer evening and weekend run from London to Bedford and has been popular for as long as I remember living in Central or West London.It would be very surprising if everybody involved in the case hadn't at some time been on a run out to Bedfordshire-just as they would have been to Richmond for example.
But the point I was making yesterday was that there was no 'meandering' not according to Valerie anyway ,between that moment when they turned right towards Slough and London and away from Maidenhead -which the gunman said he had "had enough of"and where Michael Gregsten was decorating his newly acquired flat.On the contrary the route is a direct one -road by road-it can still be taken and there are but three turnings between the Taplow right turn and The Watford Road -right/ left /and right again at Hanger Lane then straight up to Watford on the Watford Road.They were extremely close to Abbot's Langley at one point in Watford where Janet and Michael Gregsten lived-his journey to work and back in fact.
After Watford the journey could be said to 'meander' but its still a more or less direct run to Clophill/Deadman's Hill. Here in the lay-by the gunman stops them and has Gregsten turn the car round to face London. On the way he knows there are some 'roadworks'------which indicate he has done a reconnaissance trip once or twice and knows they are there.
This was questioned in court.Acott had 'moved' the original 'roadworks -ie ' the ones Valerie had mentioned near Stanmore -he had 'moved them' and the garage over to Kingsbury where Hanratty's family lived! But that was wrong.The garage was a Regent petrol garage by London airport . The described site of the roadworks was some 5 miles west from Kingsbury garage.Hanratty had not been near his parents home anyway since leaving the window cleaning business in mid July-some 5 or 6 weeks before so why would he have remembered those roadworks in West London?
What appears to be the case is that this car journey was planned beforehand-direct that did not need a map........not some random trip up hill and down dale
Cheers
Norma

[Graham]

But Graham-the murder didnt take place in Bedford-the nearest village was Clophill.Far from going to Bedford he turned the car round so it pointed back to London----going back to Watford perhaps?
Btw Bedford and Bedfordshire were and still are main beauty spots for days out in Summer for Londoners just under 50 miles from London-

Nats, it was just a bit of surmising on my part, nothing more. JH did apparently have a relative who lived in or near Bedford, and he'd been to visit at some time. Unless he travelled by train, the A6 was the direct route from London to Bedford, and you pass through Clophill and up Deadman's Hill. I was only suggesting that for no known reason this stuck in the back of JH's mind when he decided to go for a drive with MG and VS. Leonard Miller also thought this might be why he took them towards Bedford.

Graham

[Limehouse]

Hi Stevo,

Welcome to the A6 threads. You're near St Neots? I am not too far away in Peterborough and sometimes make the trip down the A1 to see friends in Little Paxton.

It would be great to get the thread sparking again (In a nice way though).

Hi Graham, always good to hear from you - the voice of reason in the 'jim-did-it' camp. Still waiting for you to post on the Folk Music thread though???

Hi Norma,

Sorry I missed you on Saturday. We lost Eddie, then left the march at Hyde park to meet a friend down from Liverpool but lost him too!
I am still looking for my Matthews Report quotes over on the other thread. I am certain I was sent a link or some extracts but can't remember who sent them. It could have been Tony or Steve or maybe Jim.

Look forward to 'chatting' with everyone on this thread soon?

Julie

[Natalie Severn]

But Graham-the murder didnt take place in Bedford-the nearest village was Clophill.Far from going to Bedford he turned the car round so it pointed back to London----going back to Watford perhaps?
Btw Bedford and Bedfordshire were and still are main beauty spots for days out in Summer for Londoners just under 50 miles from London-

[Graham]

No chance! It's just that nothing further was heard reference the previous publicity for a new appeal, supposed to be happening in early 2011. Richard Ingram's various statements notwithstanding, why didn't it ever happen? I only wonder, as any criminal appeal has to be paid for, who will/might be bankrolling this one?

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Why Graham---are you offering to make a donation?

[Graham]

Another Steve, on the pre-crash Forum, posted some great photos of the various places associated with the A6 Murder. I downloaded most of them, but sorry to say they disappeared when my old computer went tonto. He posted pics of the entrance to the corn-field, of Deadman's Hill, and the various places in Liverpool and Rhyl.

With regard to the route JH made MG and VS take after he abducted them at Dorney Reach, it should be remembered that he did (apparently) have relatives in the Bedford area and had been there before.

I would still like to know who's going to finance Appeal No 2!

Best,

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Graham,
Yes-the appeal is in preparation but all I know is that the DNA evidence is under investigation and that takes time -very good to hear from you! x


Thankyou so much for your offer to photograph places Steve -which we may well be very glad of .
Some recent thinking [by Andy my husband] :There was no 'meandering' on the route they took before they reached Watford---the route Valerie Storie describes was a direct route which appears to have been reconnoitred -by the gunman so that he could do the route without having to refer to a map -he gave the directions saying "not here" at Greenford---go straight on -[ie to the more direct Hangar Lane ']
Oh yes-he knew about' roadworks' but not where Acott said they were -somehow the roadworks 'moved' East but thats not where Valerie said they were .In fact they were to the west of Kingsbury and they did not stop or go near any Kingsbury garage either -according to Valerie's route it was actually a "Regent Petrol Garage" near London Airport [Valerie remembered and stuck to the London Airport garage as being the right one despite Acott talking about a different garage ]
From Hanger Lane they took the Watford Road -direct > Watford close to where Gregsten's house was in Abbot's Langley. The A4 Slough/Taplow to Watford / Abbots Langley route was presumably the route of Gregsten's daily car trip to and from work-he had not yet moved in to the Maidenhead flat-----he had been in Watford earlier that day taking his sons to Cassiobury Park on the Watford Road .......But after Watford they did seem to 'meander.'...up to Deadman's Hill and the last time he looked at his watch was around 2.15......
just some stuff Andy is working on
good to meet you Steve and to see you back Graham x

[Stevo7395]

Hi Graham, yes I know where you mean now, thanks for that. I was actually on the wrong radio channel on the day covering the other side of the county but I do recall quite a big op on the day and having heard of the case I started to try and read more and have seen the documentaries etc. Like I said a fascinating but tragic case for JH,MG and VS and all of their families. I still have doubts as to his guilt but DNA points me the other way......I just don't know mate, cheers for now.

[Stevo7395]

You are welcome Norma, be great to make a documentary, if you need any help with photo's, helping out etc we live in Eaton Socon ( St Neots ) and a 15 minute drive away from there and of course no money reqd....just would be happy to get involved, best wishes.

[Graham]

Hi Stevo,

welcome to the thread, which has been dormant for quite some time - sadly, it has to be said.

As Norma says, the location of the murder is on the Northbound A6 past Clophill, and is to the left just where the road levels out. If you pass a detached house on your right, you've gone too far. Again, as Norma says, the old lay-by is now the LH lane of the dual carriageway. What you will find now is a very long lay-by seperated from the road by a rather untidy verge. I don't think your interest is at all ghoulish - I've been there a few times over the years, but plainly it's not the same as it was in 1961. It must have been quite traumatic to be involved in the exhumation of JH's remains.

Hi Nats,

I hope you're well. Even though I am, as your are aware (!), a JimDidIt-ite, I actually hope that the new appeal does come off. One question - if it does go ahead, who will be financing it? Any ideas?

Bye,

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Oh Thankyou Steve---we are hoping to make a documentary---one of the problems is that so much has changed now like the disappearance of the A6 lay-by itself you just mentioned,
Best wishes
Norma

[Stevo7395]

Thanks Natalie, I'm still trying to plough through all the posts. I work for Herts Police and was in the control room when they exhumed his body.....2001/2 I think will never forget it. The whole thing has a real sadness about it with so many theories and possibilities, I like the look of your book and will be ordering a copy....come payday....lol, cheers

[Natalie Severn]

Hello Steve,
Yes I think the appeal is ongoing.
You are right the original lay-by is now part of the carriageway.The car was travelling on the Northern side and the gunman made Gregsten turn round[twice] and face towards London.
Welcome to the thread,
Norma [Natalie Severn]