scan of Hanratty statement re Rhyl alibi

[OneRound]

Sherlock - your recent posts are of some interest from the point of view of social history but I don't see that they do anything to advance claims that Hanratty was in Rhyl when the A6 murder and rape were being committed. Nothing is time bound to that night.

Regards,
OneRound

[Sherlock Houses]

Last page of statement made on 29th January 1962 .It refers to hump back bridge[at far end of Kinmel St] also to Woolworths on Rhyl High Street.
[29/01/61 statement predated the discovery of any Rhyl witnesses-detectives had to go and search for these in final week of trial].

Precisely as Hanratty remembered it Natalie.
The bottom 2 images are snapshots taken from the previously posted Youtube video, a home movie of Rhyl from 1960/61.

[Sherlock Houses]

And here is a flavour of how the seaside resort looked in the early 1960's...........
The humped back bridge which Hanratty remembered comes into view at 12 mins 15secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KxRfjrSVyA

This home movie which someone has kindly uploaded onto YouTube appears to have been shot either in 1960 or 1961 as the movie being screened at the Odeon cinema is the 1960 Burt Lancaster western "The Unforgiven".

[moste]

The following Youtube link gives interested viewers of this thread a flavour of how Rhyl fairground looked just 12 months after James Hanratty's 2 day stay at Ingledene. 13 and 3/4 minutes into the video can be seen the dodgems ride that Hanratty worked on for a few hours exactly 4 weeks earlier on July 25th 1961.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ATZF7kdZjc

Good stuff,! What memories. Another flavour on the Rhyl front, the shilling toffee lollies that lasted for hours and hours. I was there as a 5 yr. old in 1952 and for 3 yrs. in a row, staying at the huge Winkups caravan camp .You really do get the atmosphere with these videos. I think I went on every one of those rides. Even had a photo taken at the controls of one of the steam locos.

[OneRound]

The following Youtube link gives interested viewers of this thread a flavour of how Rhyl fairground looked just 12 months after James Hanratty's 2 day stay at Ingledene. 13 and 3/4 minutes into the video can be seen the dodgems ride that Hanratty worked on for a few hours exactly 4 weeks earlier on July 25th 1961.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ATZF7kdZjc

Reference of course should be to ''James Hanratty's alleged 2 day stay at Ingledene''.

Furthermore, whilst Hanratty eventually claimed to be in Rhyl and not Liverpool when Michael Gregsten was being murdered and Valerie Storie raped, I don't believe he himself ever asserted that he stayed at Ingledene. The allegations as to Ingledene were made on his behalf by others, including a dreadful attempt by the landlady of the premises with no support from her records or the other guests who definitely were there.

Regards,
OneRound

[Sherlock Houses]

And here is a flavour of how the seaside resort looked in the early 1960's...........
The humped back bridge which Hanratty remembered comes into view at 12 mins 15secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KxRfjrSVyA

Humped back bridge ? It's humpback bridge you silly person !

[Sherlock Houses]

And here is a flavour of how the seaside resort looked in the early 1960's...........
The humped back bridge which Hanratty remembered comes into view at 12 mins 15secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KxRfjrSVyA

[Sherlock Houses]

Rhyl funfair August 1962....

The following Youtube link gives interested viewers of this thread a flavour of how Rhyl fairground looked just 12 months after James Hanratty's 2 day stay at Ingledene. 13 and 3/4 minutes into the video can be seen the dodgems ride that Hanratty worked on for a few hours exactly 4 weeks earlier on July 25th 1961.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ATZF7kdZjc

[Graham]

Give me strength....

....and that really is it for me tonight. I may as well conduct this debate with a sideboard.

Goodnight!

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

I think it's time for bed now, Norma, as you've gone off into the realms of Dreamland...

Graham

Excuse me?- whats it to do with Hanratty?

[Natalie Severn]

[QUOTE=Graham;218270]Oh come on, Norma - do me a favour!!!



I have referred you the the words of the prison psychiatrist who found him of normal intelligence and able to read the newspapers he bought and write a letter in a 'fairly good hand'---see also the sentence i posted confirming this!



Almost certainly....

Never mind Mrs Dinwoodie - I'm talking about Mrs Jones here. JH said that the woman he met at Ingledene was, quote, "Middle-aged, about 50, average build. She wore glasses and had greyish hair". In fact, Mrs J was fair-haired and not at all grey-haired; she did not wear glasses; rather than being of 'average build' she was only 5' 2" tall


You are wrong here Graham. Mrs Jones
did wear glasses on occasion and has stated this clearly .

In 1961 5ft 2 ins was the average height of a woman.Today it is 5ft 4 ins.

And let us never forget that Mrs Jones was shown only one photograph by his defence-team investigator Joe Gillbanks (who should have known better) - that of James Hanratty. Exactly the same thing happened with Mrs Dinwoodie, except that time it was by a police-officer, rather incredibly.


A lot of very fishy stuff went on -----not least by police officers---dozens of withheld statements/ the use of extremely shady witnesses /the altered venue of the court/altered witness statements etc etc .


At the trial, Swanwick said to Mrs Jones: "It would not be quite right, would it, to say that when you were shown the photograph yopu recognised it?" To which Mrs Jones replied, "Well, no". Swanwick then asked Mrs Jones to explain why she had said she recognised the man in the photograph, when she said that she could not remember if she had seen the person or not. Mrs Jones then said: "I got muddled because of the hair. He had not got that coloured hair when he was in our house". In actual fact, it was Terry Evans who suggested to Mrs Jones that she might not have recognised Hanratty in the courtroom because of the colour of his hair - in fact, Mrs Jones said that she was only 'almost sure' that she recognised him. Not completely sure. There is a big difference.

OK she may not have been completely sure after 6 months had passedbut the fact is she immediately said she had seen him on being shown that photo-she didn't hesitate [unlike Valerie who took 20 minutes to 'be sure'----another thing that would disqualify her id today since any uncertainty disqualifies nowadays.Nor did Mrs Dinwoody show any hesitation.But her granddaughter did until she was shown a photo of him along with others in profile---then she picked him out immediately.

[Graham]

I think it's time for bed now, Norma, as you've gone off into the realms of Dreamland...

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Btw Graham-since we are now talking about behaviour that is outside the law by today's rules regarding guest houses can I remind you that Valerie Storie's identification of Hanratty would be 'outside the law 'today-technically-and disqualified-on several counts--- but most importantly it would be disqualified on account of her first identifying someone else entirely i.e. Michael Clark a totally innocent volunteer............
other grounds that would be argued by the defence as very risky would be her changed description on 31st August from dark eyes to very light blue and the fact the identikit she helped compose also showed a man. with dark eyes whereas Valerie later said he had light blue eyes.Hanratty had light blue eyes.

[Graham]

He lacked confidence which is a bit different from lacking competence....

Oh come on, Norma - do me a favour!!!

quite possibly

Almost certainly....

Never mind Mrs Dinwoodie - I'm talking about Mrs Jones here. JH said that the woman he met at Ingledene was, quote, "Middle-aged, about 50, average build. She wore glasses and had greyish hair". In fact, Mrs J was fair-haired and not at all grey-haired; she did not wear glasses; rather than being of 'average build' she was only 5' 2" tall.

And let us never forget that Mrs Jones was shown only one photograph by his defence-team investigator Joe Gillbanks (who should have known better) - that of James Hanratty. Exactly the same thing happened with Mrs Dinwoodie, except that time it was by a police-officer, rather incredibly.

At the trial, Swanwick said to Mrs Jones: "It would not be quite right, would it, to say that when you were shown the photograph yopu recognised it?" To which Mrs Jones replied, "Well, no". Swanwick then asked Mrs Jones to explain why she had said she recognised the man in the photograph, when she said that she could not remember if she had seen the person or not. Mrs Jones then said: "I got muddled because of the hair. He had not got that coloured hair when he was in our house". In actual fact, it was Terry Evans who suggested to Mrs Jones that she might not have recognised Hanratty in the courtroom because of the colour of his hair - in fact, Mrs Jones said that she was only 'almost sure' that she recognised him. Not completely sure. There is a big difference.

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Graham said


Then why did Hanratty bother to trouble Gerrard Leonard to write postcards for him when he was on his Irish jaunt? You can't have it both ways....


He lacked confidence which is a bit different from lacking competence....


Then according to what I've very recently found out they're breaking the law.

quite possibly


And Mrs Jones and her daughter were also breaking the law. And Swanwick caught them out.

!Indeed

As far as the night of 22 August was concerned he most certainly did make the whole thing up in the middle of his trial when he realised his Liverpool 'alibi' wouldn't wash, and based his description of Ingledene upon that of many b&b's he'd formerly stayed in. Even his description of Mrs Jones was inaccurate.

The judge didn't appear to think that he waas making the whole thing up in his summing up.
Michael Sherrard is on record discussing the fact that Graham Swanwick and the prosecution took Mrs Dinwoody very seriously indeed and made up the most ridiculous scenarios to accommodate her statements-
As for Mrs Jones-she had fair hair which six months later he remembered as greyish---she was 58 years of age so quite probably tinted her hair blond and it was possibly fading the days he met her.
Best