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  • Somehow managed to delete Caz’s heading there. Sorry.

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    • Originally posted by caz View Post
      Hi moste,

      Would you say justice would have been done if Alphon had hanged instead, despite the total lack of forensic evidence to suggest a connection between him and the rape or the murder weapon?

      If Valerie got it wrong when identifying Hanratty as her rapist, despite having spent so long in the car with the man who attacked her, how unlucky was it that Hanratty's blood group, his DNA, even including the snot on his hankie, all conspired to support her identification, while nothing of the sort attached itself to Alphon?

      I'd have more doubts if there was a third man in the picture who would have made a stronger suspect than Alphon, but as it's a toss up between the two we have, the case against Hanratty from where I'm sitting is not nearly as weak as that against Alphon.

      Love,

      Caz
      X
      Valerie’s picture of the killer looked like Alphon is all I’m saying.(despite her spending all that time with the man) dont you see the problem here? This is the same man that Valerie lit ciggies for, and tried to dissuade from being seen by homeowners in Clophill by parking their car in an observable location. The mind boggles.

      Comment


      • Third man in the picture that sounds more like it. In the vein of D CS Mathews you mean? B.in Law henchman ,very possible.( far from being a toss up of the two)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by moste View Post
          Valerieâs picture of the killer looked like Alphon is all Iâm saying.(despite her spending all that time with the man) dont you see the problem here? This is the same man that Valerie lit ciggies for, and tried to dissuade from being seen by homeowners in Clophill by parking their car in an observable location. The mind boggles.
          I don't know what's wrong with your font, moste, but it's quite distracting.

          The problem I see is that if Alphon had been the gunman and Valerie had seen enough of his face to produce a reasonable likeness of him after the event, it makes no sense that she would then not recognise him again when he stood there in plain sight at the first id parade.

          Valerie's picture may have looked like Alphon to others, but what good was it if it didn't look like Alphon to her?

          I thought the usual objection to her not recognising Alphon, but going on to pick out Hanratty at the second id parade, was that she hadn't seen the gunman's face clearly enough to know him again, and had to rely on voice recognition. Not sure you can have it both ways.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          Last edited by caz; 11-24-2021, 01:47 PM.
          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


          Comment


          • Originally posted by moste View Post
            Third man in the picture that sounds more like it. In the vein of D CS Mathews you mean?
            Matthews was an Alphonite.

            "Mr Matthews team had concluded the man who carried out the attack on 22 August 1961 at Deadman's Hill, Bedfordshire, was probably hired to break up the illicit liaison. His report is believed to recommend that a new enquiry should in particular examine evidence regarding Peter Alphon, a salesman who was the original suspect."

            'The Independent' 22-Oct-2011

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            • Valerie's picture may have looked like Alphon to others, but what good was it if it didn't look like Alphon to her?

              Ha Ha Ha. CaZ. Can you hear yourself?

              Comment


              • ‘Valerie's picture may have looked like Alphon to others, but what good was it if it didn't look like Alphon to her?’

                I think that’s one of the best points Caz has ever made on this site. Since Valerie Storie was the guiding hand behind the photofit then it is pretty presumptuous of anyone else to tell her who she was actually describing. She was doubtless under pressure at the first ID parade but the police had no motive whatsoever for steering her away from their suspect. For whatever reason, she failed to identify Alphon.


                ‘Matthews was an Alphonite.
                "Mr Matthews team had concluded the man who carried out the attack on 22 August 1961 at Deadman's Hill, Bedfordshire, was probably hired to break up the illicit liaison. His report is believed to recommend that a new enquiry should in particular examine evidence regarding Peter Alphon, a salesman who was the original suspect.’

                Which is why the Matthews Report would make interesting reading. He must have had more than Alphon’s claim in order to have reached this conclusion about the motivation for the crime. There must be supporting evidence, presumably in witness statements taken at the time, which support this theory but which have not been placed in the public domain.

                Comment


                • If the Matthews report is based on witness statements taken in the 1960s, why did the Nimmo and Hawser reports conclude differently and can these two be read or accessed anywhere?

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                  • The Nimmo (1967) and Hawser Reports (1975) were discussed on here a couple of years back, around post number 5560.

                    The Nimmo Report was never published so far as I can make out as it was merely advisory for the then Home Secretary. It concentrated on the alibi evidence from Liverpool and Rhyl. The Hawser Report was published, drew upon some of the Nimmo Report, and dealt comprehensively with all aspects of the A6 Case. You can download the Hawser Report online in its entirety but have to sign up to a paid website. Other than that it can probably be found in second hand book shops.

                    Comment


                    • Hawser changed his surname from Hauser in 1944, presumably to make it sound less Germanic.

                      (i53) Solicitors. NOTICE is hereby given, that by a deed poll dated 9th November 1944 and duly enrolled in the Supreme Court of Judicature on the 15th November 1944 CYRIL LEWIS HAWSER of 27 Corringham Court Golders Green in the county of Middlesex Barrister at Law a natural born British subject renounced and abandoned the surname of Hauser and assumed in •lieu thereof the surname of Hawser on behalf of himself his Wife Phyllis Hawser and infant child Gillian Margaret Hawser.—Dated 15th November 1944.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by moste View Post
                        Valerie's picture may have looked like Alphon to others, but what good was it if it didn't look like Alphon to her?

                        Ha Ha Ha. CaZ. Can you hear yourself?
                        Do you think all women are stupid, or just me and Valerie?
                        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cobalt View Post
                          ‘Valerie's picture may have looked like Alphon to others, but what good was it if it didn't look like Alphon to her?’

                          I think that’s one of the best points Caz has ever made on this site. Since Valerie Storie was the guiding hand behind the photofit then it is pretty presumptuous of anyone else to tell her who she was actually describing. She was doubtless under pressure at the first ID parade but the police had no motive whatsoever for steering her away from their suspect. For whatever reason, she failed to identify Alphon.
                          Thank you, cobalt, on behalf of Valerie, as she no longer has a voice.

                          If Alphon had looked to her like the gunman, as in the photofit she had approved, her motivation for picking him out and getting justice would have been through the roof.

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by caz View Post

                            Do you think all women are stupid, or just me and Valerie?
                            Not at all. Not stupid, perish the thought. Just misguided is all.With just a hint of bias

                            Those identikit pictures are far from perfect copies of an actual photo, but they are painstakingly created stage by stage by a trained

                            individual ,who , at completion satisfies the witness and him/herself that no further adjustments are required, even down to the eye

                            colour where the witness can adjust shading to varying degrees for grey, green, blue, or brown .I said your statement was laughable, only

                            because ,anyone having even so much as half a lean towards that identikit picture resembling Alphon, could never in a million years point

                            to Hanratty and say ,‘that’s the man’.

                            oh , and just for the record , My better half and I , have raised four beautiful daughters each in our opinion more sagacious that their

                            respective husbands(shht!) And to go one step further , I have felt for many years ,the world would be a far better place if ran by

                            women.

                            Well done incidentally in winning Cobalt over with regards to this identikit point.

                            I can only think with regards to Valerie Picking out Hanratty , She was somehow influenced unfairly by the overbearing( ‘I knew you’d help

                            me settle my score ‘) Acott.

                            Never forgetting we were in a period of major police corruption.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by caz View Post

                              Thank you, cobalt, on behalf of Valerie, as she no longer has a voice.

                              If Alphon had looked to her like the gunman, as in the photofit she had approved, her motivation for picking him out and getting justice would have been through the roof.

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X
                              I guess in this regard we ( including Sherrard) would seriously need to see Michael the RAF man photo.
                              Last edited by moste; Yesterday, 09:27 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Hi Moste,

                                I retain my position that Hanratty was probably not guilty of the A6 crime but I am not sure we can read much into photofits. The so called ‘Bible John’ killings in Glasgow in the late 1960s led to what has become an iconic image in Scottish culture: a photofit created via a witness who was in the company of the killer in a dance hall for at least an hour and shared a taxi with him for a short period. The woman was reportedly very satisfied with the photofit which was later developed by an artist into a colour portrait yet the case remains unsolved. She attended many ID parades, was confident she could pick out the man, but never did. I think she died last year, still unable to help solve her sister’s death.

                                The Peter Sutcliffe photofits tell a similar story. Some of the survivors of his attacks helped create what seem to us, in hindsight, very good likenesses; yet these did little to help the inquiry until he was caught by chance. Perhaps police photofits were often the equivalent of fools’ gold.

                                Like you I think the most productive avenue for opening up the A6 Case lies not in Rhyl/Liverpool, not in North London but in Taplow where the saga began.

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