Bible John: A New Suspect by Jill Bavin-Mizzi

[barnflatwyngarde]

In the published articles, it was reported that Templeton had worked as a printer's apprentice.

Did she give any rational for claiming this qualifies as having worked in a "laboratory type setting"?

Hi rj.

The author makes the point that in the late 1960's print compositors would be using the latest equipment such as lens arrangements, photo multipliers, cathode ray tubes etc.

She references a short film documentary "Linotype: The Film" (link attached) which shows compositors working with the latest equipment, which included microscopes and chemical baths.

There are two stills at 29.49 and 30.08 which look as if they were taken in the 1950's showing compositors wearing shirts and ties. And there are scenes in the film showing quite technical machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDM-EbDCiQg&t=533s

I found another interesting site (link attached) where the writer details his early days as a press photographer and in his apprenticeship working across various areas, makes the point that there was a close connection between the print room, photographic development room etc.

https://pressphotohistory.com/jeff-wright-my-time-as-a-press-photographer-1960s-70s/

I don't know if the author is making a bit of a stretch with this point, but it seems clear that compositors were more than just manual workers.

Aplogies rj, but I'm going to use this post to include something I neglected to put in my previous post reviewing the book.

When the author talks about "Bryers Road" she is referring to Byres Road.

[Herlock Sholmes]

This new book by Jillian Bavin-Mizzi is a very welcome addition to the other books already published on the Bible John case.

Bible john is the name given to killer of three women in Glasgow between February 1968 and October 1969.
All three women had been at the Barrowland ballroom when they met their killer.
All the women had been battered and strangled, and all three women were menstruating.

The name of John McInnes enters the Bible John case in 1996, when Strathclyde Police presented a case to the Procurator Fiscal to exhume the body of John McInnes in order to carry out a DNA comparison with the DNA sample that was found on the body of the third victim Helen Puttock.
It is not known exactly why police homed in on John McInnes, but it has been reported that the Puttock DNA bore similarities to a relative of John McInnes.
Police obtained DNA from the son, brother and sister of John McInnes, and there were clear similarities to the Puttock DNA.
Unfortunately the DNA obtained from McInnes exhumation was so corrupted that no meaningful comparison could be made.

The basic premise of the book is that in the taxi with the third victim, Helen Puttock and her sister Jeannie, when the killer gave his name as John Templeton or Sempleson or Emerson, he may have been telling the truth.
And if he was, there would be some element of DNA similarities between the Mcinnes family line and the Templeton family line.

To this end the author trawled back through genealogical records to ascertain if there a point at which any of these three names intersected with the McInnes family tree.

Bavin-Mizzi's research did find a John Templeton whose family line crossed the McInnes fanily line in the seventh generation.
She states that "While John McInnes was clearly not Bible John, he was almost certainly related to him." (page 89)

Bavin Mizzi after some research found several John Templetons, but only one who satisfied the following criteria which are based on information shared by the killer during the taxy journey with Helen Puttock and her sister Jeannie:

• Name matched that given by the killer in the taxi.
• The name John Templeton exists among the ancestors of Hector and Janet McInnes, siblings whose DNA samples shares patterns with the DNA profile obtained from the body of Helen Puttock.
• Matches the age profile of the killer.
• Born in Glasgow with a Glaswegian accent.
• Was a foster child as surmised by the police.
• Familiarity with areas travelled in the taxi.
• Grew up with one sister.
• Worked in a laboratory type setting.
• Familiar with the Scotstoun area and the transport services available in the area.
• Lived within walking distance of the bus stop that the killer alighted from.

With regard to the movements of the killer after he got off the number 6 bus at Gray Street a short time after the murder of Helen Puttock, I have always been mystified by the oft repeated statement that the killer got off the bus at that point because he was making his way to the Govan ferry to cross the river to the south side of the city.
It is just as likely that the killer got off the bus at that particular stop because he was heading for home.
John Templeton at that time was living in Melrose Gardens, which was 1.1 miles away from Gray Street, a mere 20 minute walk.

Bavin-Mizzi makes a compelling case for the teeth of John Templeton bearing a striking similarity to the plaster cast of the killer's teeth (taken from a bite mark on the body of Helen Puttock).
The missing upper right tooth is evident in a picture of John Templeton.
What is also clear from the photographs of the plaster cast on page 234, is that the overlapping front teeth of the killer as described by Helen's sister Jeannie, appear to be only slightly misaligned.
The overlap is clearly not as pronounced as stated by other authors and as depicted in some artists impressions.

The book is very well sourced, with lots of references to primary sources, although the author is honest enough to admit that a major problem for any author trying to write about the case is the lack of access to official documents relating to the case.

I suppose that the book stands or falls on the genealogical connection between John Templeton and the McInnes family line, and the strength of the DNA connection between the Templeton family line and the McInnes family line.

Has Jillian Bavin-Mizzi definitively solved the Bible John murder case?
Absolutely not!

Has she made a convincing case for John Templeton to be considered a serious candidate for these horrific murders?
I think she has!

I should be close to finishing the book tonight with a bit of luck. A question for you (or anyone) Barn. Helen Puttock went out with a red purse that night. On page 44 the author says that the disheveled man on the number 6 bus paid his fair from a red purse. This is hugely significant of course but I hadn’t seen it written anywhere else. I used the search function on the books that I have and found no mention of this. I can’t recall if it might have been mentioned on the podcast but I’d have thought that such an important fact would have stuck in my memory? Is it familiar to you..or anyone else?

[rjpalmer]

[*]Worked in a laboratory type setting.

In the published articles, it was reported that Templeton had worked as a printer's apprentice.

Did she give any rational for claiming this qualifies as having worked in a "laboratory type setting"?

[barnflatwyngarde]

This new book by Jillian Bavin-Mizzi is a very welcome addition to the other books already published on the Bible John case.

Bible john is the name given to killer of three women in Glasgow between February 1968 and October 1969.
All three women had been at the Barrowland ballroom when they met their killer.
All the women had been battered and strangled, and all three women were menstruating.

The name of John McInnes enters the Bible John case in 1996, when Strathclyde Police presented a case to the Procurator Fiscal to exhume the body of John McInnes in order to carry out a DNA comparison with the DNA sample that was found on the body of the third victim Helen Puttock.
It is not known exactly why police homed in on John McInnes, but it has been reported that the Puttock DNA bore similarities to a relative of John McInnes.
Police obtained DNA from the son, brother and sister of John McInnes, and there were clear similarities to the Puttock DNA.
Unfortunately the DNA obtained from McInnes exhumation was so corrupted that no meaningful comparison could be made.

The basic premise of the book is that in the taxi with the third victim, Helen Puttock and her sister Jeannie, when the killer gave his name as John Templeton or Sempleson or Emerson, he may have been telling the truth.
And if he was, there would be some element of DNA similarities between the Mcinnes family line and the Templeton family line.

To this end the author trawled back through genealogical records to ascertain if there a point at which any of these three names intersected with the McInnes family tree.

Bavin-Mizzi's research did find a John Templeton whose family line crossed the McInnes fanily line in the seventh generation.
She states that "While John McInnes was clearly not Bible John, he was almost certainly related to him." (page 89)

Bavin Mizzi after some research found several John Templetons, but only one who satisfied the following criteria which are based on information shared by the killer during the taxy journey with Helen Puttock and her sister Jeannie:

• Name matched that given by the killer in the taxi.
• The name John Templeton exists among the ancestors of Hector and Janet McInnes, siblings whose DNA samples shares patterns with the DNA profile obtained from the body of Helen Puttock.
• Matches the age profile of the killer.
• Born in Glasgow with a Glaswegian accent.
• Was a foster child as surmised by the police.
• Familiarity with areas travelled in the taxi.
• Grew up with one sister.
• Worked in a laboratory type setting.
• Familiar with the Scotstoun area and the transport services available in the area.
• Lived within walking distance of the bus stop that the killer alighted from.

With regard to the movements of the killer after he got off the number 6 bus at Gray Street a short time after the murder of Helen Puttock, I have always been mystified by the oft repeated statement that the killer got off the bus at that point because he was making his way to the Govan ferry to cross the river to the south side of the city.
It is just as likely that the killer got off the bus at that particular stop because he was heading for home.
John Templeton at that time was living in Melrose Gardens, which was 1.1 miles away from Gray Street, a mere 20 minute walk.

Bavin-Mizzi makes a compelling case for the teeth of John Templeton bearing a striking similarity to the plaster cast of the killer's teeth (taken from a bite mark on the body of Helen Puttock).
The missing upper right tooth is evident in a picture of John Templeton.
What is also clear from the photographs of the plaster cast on page 234, is that the overlapping front teeth of the killer as described by Helen's sister Jeannie, appear to be only slightly misaligned.
The overlap is clearly not as pronounced as stated by other authors and as depicted in some artists impressions.

The book is very well sourced, with lots of references to primary sources, although the author is honest enough to admit that a major problem for any author trying to write about the case is the lack of access to official documents relating to the case.

I suppose that the book stands or falls on the genealogical connection between John Templeton and the McInnes family line, and the strength of the DNA connection between the Templeton family line and the McInnes family line.

Has Jillian Bavin-Mizzi definitively solved the Bible John murder case?
Absolutely not!

Has she made a convincing case for John Templeton to be considered a serious candidate for these horrific murders?
I think she has!

[Ms Diddles]

I read 72 pages and I’m very impressed so far.

Nice work Herlock!

That was a good time to pause it if you were sleep deprived.

There is a LOT of detailed genealogical information about to be presented.

It's fascinating but in places hard to follow (if you're knackered)!
.
I read it last night, but think it might merit more scrutiny so will likely re-read.

My first impressions of the book are positive too.

A lot of research has gone into it for sure!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well, I started it last night and it's very readable so you may manage to stay awake.

I have a heavy weekend lined up, so it will likely be early next week before I'm able to get to grips with it and post any (coherent) thoughts.

I read 72 pages and I’m very impressed so far.

[Ms Diddles]

It has to be done Ms D but I suspect that I have an annoying evening ahead. I had to get up insanely early this morning and when I get to start reading I’m guessing that it will be near 8.00. I just know that as I’m trying to read something that I’ve been looking forward to I’ll be nodding off every few seconds. I’ll probably get through 10 pages in three hours before giving up.

Well, I started it last night and it's very readable so you may manage to stay awake.

I have a heavy weekend lined up, so it will likely be early next week before I'm able to get to grips with it and post any (coherent) thoughts.

[Ms Diddles]

Hey Ms D.

I am rereading some chapters of the book, just to satisfy myself that I fully understand all the points that the author is making, and whether the various strands actually hold up in presenting John Templeton as a likely or viable candidate to be Bible John.

I will try and post on Saturday with my feelings about the book, I hesitate to call it a review.
That would imply a certain level of expertise about the case that I would never claim to have.

Then folks can chip in with their thoughts.
I am really looking forward to your thoughts and those of Herlock in relation to this fascinating case.

Looking forward to hearing your non-review then Barn!

When I picked up my copy yesterday I was contemplating how weird it must be for you seeing the face of a guy you used to work with plastered all over the front of a book about a murder case that has always interested you.

That must feel pretty strange whatever your take on the theory!

[barnflatwyngarde]

Ha yes! I got mine yesterday and I've patched my Ardlamont mystery!

Hey Ms D.

I am rereading some chapters of the book, just to satisfy myself that I fully understand all the points that the author is making, and whether the various strands actually hold up in presenting John Templeton as a likely or viable candidate to be Bible John.

I will try and post on Saturday with my feelings about the book, I hesitate to call it a review.
That would imply a certain level of expertise about the case that I would never claim to have.

Then folks can chip in with their thoughts.
I am really looking forward to your thoughts and those of Herlock in relation to this fascinating case.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ha yes! I got mine yesterday and I've patched my Ardlamont mystery!

It has to be done Ms D but I suspect that I have an annoying evening ahead. I had to get up insanely early this morning and when I get to start reading I’m guessing that it will be near 8.00. I just know that as I’m trying to read something that I’ve been looking forward to I’ll be nodding off every few seconds. I’ll probably get through 10 pages in three hours before giving up.

[Ms Diddles]

I just received my book. I’m afraid that my current book on Deeming might have to go on hold.

Ha yes! I got mine yesterday and I've patched my Ardlamont mystery!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I just received my book. I’m afraid that my current book on Deeming might have to go on hold.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You are probably aware of this book, but I'm currently on "The Men Who Were Sherlock Holmes" by Daniel Smith.

It's all about Joseph Bell and Henry Littlejohn's involvement in a Scottish murder case interspersed with sections about their relationship with and influence on Conan Doyle.

It's pretty good, but if you and Barn start chatting about the Bible John one I'll likely get curious and want to join in!

Yes, that’s a good book. They must have re-named it for the paperback edition (although I can’t think why they would?) I bought this one three or four years ago.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ardlamont-Mystery-Real-Life-Creation-Sherlock/dp/1782438459

[Ms Diddles]

Yeah Ms D, that's the guy!

And I noticed that he always carried some chalk with him, and his handwritten memos were in a good schoolboy hand.

Strange old world in many ways.

Yeah, his spelling is atrocious though!

[barnflatwyngarde]

Oh yeah, Barn!

I know him too.

He's notorious round here.

Always looking at you kinda stern, swilling his frothy ale and trying to foist his unwanted red handkerchiefs off on any poor unsuspecting fool.

What a d!ck!!!!

Yeah Ms D, that's the guy!

And I noticed that he always carried some chalk with him, and his handwritten memos were in a good schoolboy hand.

Strange old world in many ways.