Did the Right Man Hang

[etenguy]

I'm certainly looking forward to it. Antony had heard of him but I hadn't.

I'm not sure, the blurb was not compelling - I'm sure it will be a good book on the case but it is not promising any new insights, just restating the facts. Maybe when its published there will be more information that makes it more enticing.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks Herlock - limited edition and signed for £20. I think there is a limited audience, so it is probably the best way to get some return on Mark's time. Shame it's not out before Christmas - would have been a nice gift option.

I'm certainly looking forward to it. Antony had heard of him but I hadn't.

[etenguy]

Cheers Eten.

By the way Jonathan Menges told me that there's a new book on the Wallace case out in January. It's called Checkmate and it can be pre-ordered from Mango Books. I emailed Antony about the author Mark Russell and he told me that he is a guy that thinks Wallace was guilty. It's a bit steep at £20 though.

Thanks Herlock - limited edition and signed for £20. I think there is a limited audience, so it is probably the best way to get some return on Mark's time. Shame it's not out before Christmas - would have been a nice gift option.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Episode 5 is up, but embargoed until the 12 December.

Cheers Eten.

By the way Jonathan Menges told me that there's a new book on the Wallace case out in January. It's called Checkmate and it can be pre-ordered from Mango Books. I emailed Antony about the author Mark Russell and he told me that he is a guy that thinks Wallace was guilty. It's a bit steep at £20 though.

[etenguy]

Episode 5 is up, but embargoed until the 12 December.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock

I'm up to episode four now and agree with you, though I'm not finding it as interesting anymore - I found I was more interested in Gordon's surgery than the case. I'm hoping the last two episodes will contain some more substantial information. Drawing it out over six episodes was a mistake, I think. Unless episodes 5 and 6 are jammed pack with new information - this probably would have worked better as a one hour programme, at least for me.

Hi Eten,

I agree. All that we've learned so far could have been told in 30 or 40 minutes no problem. Unless someone phones in or they find something with the wow factor it might end up a disappointment. It's an interesting story; but there's not two and a half hours worth. Fingers crossed for Gordon's surgery though.

[etenguy]

Cheers OneRound

I've just listened through to episode four. I know what you mean about substance when you're dealing with anonymous sources and unverifiable statements. I won't spoil it for anyone by mentioning the contents of the episodes but I'm more willing to consider the abortion scenario than the suggestion that someone hanged in Courtenay's place.

They discuss the medical evidence with a Professor Jack Crane but I'm surprised that they haven't raised the issue of the glove being pushed into the throat wound. Actually it hasn't been mentioned. Why not?

It's an interesting programme though and I'm looking forward to #5.

Hi Herlock

I'm up to episode four now and agree with you, though I'm not finding it as interesting anymore - I found I was more interested in Gordon's surgery than the case. I'm hoping the last two episodes will contain some more substantial information. Drawing it out over six episodes was a mistake, I think. Unless episodes 5 and 6 are jammed pack with new information - this probably would have worked better as a one hour programme, at least for me.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Hi Al - certainly, going over to Ireland as part of their hangman duties was often fraught with danger of retribution from friends and associates of the condemned. I vaguely remember reading of Albert selecting a long and involved journey home after one execution there so as to ensure a safe return.

However, the Pierrepoints took their money and took their chances. They knew the risks of providing their services in Ireland and willingly undertook them. In this case, they understood Harold Courtney was their man. They wouldn't have sought to change that or had the clout to do so.

There would have been enormous practical problems for anyone attempting to substitute Courtney with a new fall guy. Not least getting all the others who would need to be involved to agree and keep quiet.

Best regards,
OneRound

They did indeed go to extra lengths in Ireland, including carrying a gun. Any scheduled execution attracted a turnout, and the hangmen were always a viable target for the IRA.

I agree, having read a few books on the subject, the idea of 'switching' the condemned is ridiculous. A record of height and weight, along with the drop measurements were kept, so the vagrant would also need to be the same size. Another little obstacle to contend with.

[OneRound]

A fair point though. The Billingtons were the first 'family' executioners, later followed by Henry, Tom and Albert Pierrepoint.

I haven't got into this case, but with regards to the vagrant being hung as a substitute, the historical dangers facing the Pierrepoints when hanging in Ireland must be worth considering.

Hi Al - certainly, going over to Ireland as part of their hangman duties was often fraught with danger of retribution from friends and associates of the condemned. I vaguely remember reading of Albert selecting a long and involved journey home after one execution there so as to ensure a safe return.

However, the Pierrepoints took their money and took their chances. They knew the risks of providing their services in Ireland and willingly undertook them. In this case, they understood Harold Courtney was their man. They wouldn't have sought to change that or had the clout to do so.

There would have been enormous practical problems for anyone attempting to substitute Courtney with a new fall guy. Not least getting all the others who would need to be involved to agree and keep quiet.

Best regards,
OneRound

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

PS Probably bad taste on my part admittedly but I did smile at the dark humour in the opening episode where leading hangman Tom Pierrepoint being assisted in the execution by his nephew Albert was referred to as a ''bring your family to work day''.

A fair point though. The Billingtons were the first 'family' executioners, later followed by Henry, Tom and Albert Pierrepoint.

I haven't got into this case, but with regards to the vagrant being hung as a substitute, the historical dangers facing the Pierrepoints when hanging in Ireland must be worth considering.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock - I've now listened to the first two episodes. I like the calm nature of the production and the clear commentary that goes with it but am a long way from being convinced there's any substance to claims of Courtney's innocence and/or him having escaped the noose. So far all we've been served up are hearsay evidence and random opinions. I'll stick with it in the hope that something more will materialise.

Best regards,
OneRound

PS Probably bad taste on my part admittedly but I did smile at the dark humour in the opening episode where leading hangman Tom Pierrepoint being assisted in the execution by his nephew Albert was referred to as a ''bring your family to work day''.

Cheers OneRound

I've just listened through to episode four. I know what you mean about substance when you're dealing with anonymous sources and unverifiable statements. I won't spoil it for anyone by mentioning the contents of the episodes but I'm more willing to consider the abortion scenario than the suggestion that someone hanged in Courtenay's place.

They discuss the medical evidence with a Professor Jack Crane but I'm surprised that they haven't raised the issue of the glove being pushed into the throat wound. Actually it hasn't been mentioned. Why not?

It's an interesting programme though and I'm looking forward to #5.

[OneRound]

8 months is certainly leaving it late. A conspiracy's not really a conspiracy without the Freemasons. That said, some kind of cover up isn't impossible. It's difficult to see how someone could get a man hanged in someone's place though.

Hi Herlock - I've now listened to the first two episodes. I like the calm nature of the production and the clear commentary that goes with it but am a long way from being convinced there's any substance to claims of Courtney's innocence and/or him having escaped the noose. So far all we've been served up are hearsay evidence and random opinions. I'll stick with it in the hope that something more will materialise.

Best regards,
OneRound

PS Probably bad taste on my part admittedly but I did smile at the dark humour in the opening episode where leading hangman Tom Pierrepoint being assisted in the execution by his nephew Albert was referred to as a ''bring your family to work day''.

[Observer]

Hey the Poms started it with body line but then weren’t real happy when the deadly duo gave it back.

Hey, there were no complaints from the English batsmen, we didn't threaten you Aussies with diplomatic cessation. To be fair bodyline had become the norm by the time of Thompson, Lillie, Holden, Garner, Marshal and all the rest of them

[GUT]

Australian Board of Control to MCC, January 18, 1933:
Bodyline bowling assumed such proportions as to menace best interests of game, making protection of body by batsmen the main consideration. Causing intensely bitter feeling between players, as well as injury. In our opinion is unsportsmanlike. Unless stopped at once likely to upset friendly relations between Australia and England

Whinging Aussie Marys. Unlike hard man Brian Close, no helmet, no arm pads, rolled up sleeves, battered to hell, but not a single complaint.

Hey the Poms started it with body line but then weren’t real happy when the deadly duo gave it back.

[GUT]

Thommo never really matured as a bowler, Dennis the Menace on the other hand, broke some bones in his back and had to bowl smart not fast, and was just as effective.