Did the Right Man Hang

[GUT]

8 months is certainly leaving it late. A conspiracy's not really a conspiracy without the Freemasons. That said, some kind of cover up isn't impossible. It's difficult to see how someone could get a man hanged in someone's place though.

There is a theory that Ned Kelly wasn’t hung, but his brother instead.

[Observer]

Thomson’s is a great guy unless he has a Red missile in hand, and preferably a POM to aim it at. He listed for Pommie blood on the wicket.

I remember headlines in the 70’s

Ashes to Ashes
Dust to dust
If Thomson’s don’t get ya
Lillie, he must.

Australian Board of Control to MCC, January 18, 1933:
Bodyline bowling assumed such proportions as to menace best interests of game, making protection of body by batsmen the main consideration. Causing intensely bitter feeling between players, as well as injury. In our opinion is unsportsmanlike. Unless stopped at once likely to upset friendly relations between Australia and England

Whinging Aussie Marys. Unlike hard man Brian Close, no helmet, no arm pads, rolled up sleeves, battered to hell, but not a single complaint.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thomson’s is a great guy unless he has a Red missile in hand, and preferably a POM to aim it at. He listed for Pommie blood on the wicket.

I remember headlines in the 70’s

Ashes to Ashes
Dust to dust
If Thomson’s don’t get ya
Lillie, he must.

My favourite story is of when he bowled a short one to Tony Greig. The slip fielders turned around to see the ball half-volley the site screen. On a long boundary!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Nice summary, Herlock.

Episodes 2 to 4 are available as podcasts now, but of course if one rushes through them, there is still a wait for episodes 5 and 6 which the producer says are still being recorded.

Not sure about the abortion gone wrong suggestion - 8 months is very late and besides there were long standing arrangements in place in Ireland for dealing with unfortunate pregnancies that could easily have been used.

Good to hear the Freemasons are again in the frame for a conspiracy theory.

The other interesting aspect of this series is the insight into 1930s Ireland and the troubles. Definitely looking forward to the next episode too.

8 months is certainly leaving it late. A conspiracy's not really a conspiracy without the Freemasons. That said, some kind of cover up isn't impossible. It's difficult to see how someone could get a man hanged in someone's place though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I've never been to Oz but a mate of mine went over many years ago to watch cricket. He loved the place but I remember him saying that he couldn't make his mind up who to feel more sorry for? Him having to cope with the spiders or the England batsmen having to cope with Killer and Thommo

That should read Lillee and Thommo of course. Bloody text!

[GUT]

Thomson’s is a great guy unless he has a Red missile in hand, and preferably a POM to aim it at. He listed for Pommie blood on the wicket.

I remember headlines in the 70’s

Ashes to Ashes
Dust to dust
If Thomson’s don’t get ya
Lillie, he must.

[etenguy]

I'm intrigued Hats off to Eten for pointing this one out.

I've read all that I can see about the case online but there's not much more than was mentioned in the podcast.

Apparently Maurice Cregan claims that he's established that Minnie was killed as the result of an abortion gone wrong. That she died as a result of chloroform being administered and her body was taken to The Birches where her throat was cut. He also claims to have been intimidated by senior members of The Orange Order and the Freemasons to keep quite because Courtenay's family was well connected and there was an attempt to protect the family name and the names of the Doctor and Nurse that performed the abortion (names that Cregan knows but won't disclose) It's also claimed that a vagrant was hanged in his place and Courtenay fled to Australia.

Courtenay lied about knowing Minnie Reid and that he corresponded with her. He also said that he was in Armagh on April 27th. The jury at the first trial couldn't come to a verdict but the jury at the second did after a letter from Courtenay was found under Reid's pillow in which he'd arranged to meet her on the 26th. A man called Richard McKinley saw Courtenay on a bus when he claimed to be in Armagh at the time. Also witnesses testified to a relationship between Courtenay and Reid. Apparently Courtenay said of Reid "She was a fool all the days I knew her." As he was engaged at the time he doesn't come out of this looking good. The Jury recommended clemency but the Judge refused. A petition for appeal failed too.

The Defence claimed suicide which seems strange given the circumstances of her death. The Prosecution said that Courtenay hired a car in Dungannon at 8pm on the night of the murder, drove over to kill Reid then was back in Dungannon for 10.15.

It doesn't look good for Courtenay.

When her body was found there was a glove stuffed into the throat wound and the knife was found 14 yards away. So could this have been an unplanned murder done in anger and might the glove have been the killers attempt to staunch the flow of blood? Then when she died he slung the knife away in panic? Courtenay's the obvious candidate but did she have another admirer? Or a violent family member who thought that she'd brought shame on them by getting pregnant out of wedlock? Why would they wait until she was 8 months pregnant before seeking an abortion? If a vagrant was hanged in Courtenay's place why didn't he talk and wouldn't someone have listened? Pierrepoint never mentioned anything as far as I know.

I'm looking forward to part 2.

Nice summary, Herlock.

Episodes 2 to 4 are available as podcasts now, but of course if one rushes through them, there is still a wait for episodes 5 and 6 which the producer says are still being recorded.

Not sure about the abortion gone wrong suggestion - 8 months is very late and besides there were long standing arrangements in place in Ireland for dealing with unfortunate pregnancies that could easily have been used.

Good to hear the Freemasons are again in the frame for a conspiracy theory.

The other interesting aspect of this series is the insight into 1930s Ireland and the troubles. Definitely looking forward to the next episode too.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I'm intrigued Hats off to Eten for pointing this one out.

I've read all that I can see about the case online but there's not much more than was mentioned in the podcast.

Apparently Maurice Cregan claims that he's established that Minnie was killed as the result of an abortion gone wrong. That she died as a result of chloroform being administered and her body was taken to The Birches where her throat was cut. He also claims to have been intimidated by senior members of The Orange Order and the Freemasons to keep quite because Courtenay's family was well connected and there was an attempt to protect the family name and the names of the Doctor and Nurse that performed the abortion (names that Cregan knows but won't disclose) It's also claimed that a vagrant was hanged in his place and Courtenay fled to Australia.

Courtenay lied about knowing Minnie Reid and that he corresponded with her. He also said that he was in Armagh on April 27th. The jury at the first trial couldn't come to a verdict but the jury at the second did after a letter from Courtenay was found under Reid's pillow in which he'd arranged to meet her on the 26th. A man called Richard McKinley saw Courtenay on a bus when he claimed to be in Armagh at the time. Also witnesses testified to a relationship between Courtenay and Reid. Apparently Courtenay said of Reid "She was a fool all the days I knew her." As he was engaged at the time he doesn't come out of this looking good. The Jury recommended clemency but the Judge refused. A petition for appeal failed too.

The Defence claimed suicide which seems strange given the circumstances of her death. The Prosecution said that Courtenay hired a car in Dungannon at 8pm on the night of the murder, drove over to kill Reid then was back in Dungannon for 10.15.

It doesn't look good for Courtenay.

When her body was found there was a glove stuffed into the throat wound and the knife was found 14 yards away. So could this have been an unplanned murder done in anger and might the glove have been the killers attempt to staunch the flow of blood? Then when she died he slung the knife away in panic? Courtenay's the obvious candidate but did she have another admirer? Or a violent family member who thought that she'd brought shame on them by getting pregnant out of wedlock? Why would they wait until she was 8 months pregnant before seeking an abortion? If a vagrant was hanged in Courtenay's place why didn't he talk and wouldn't someone have listened? Pierrepoint never mentioned anything as far as I know.

I'm looking forward to part 2.

[Herlock Sholmes]

12:03pm for 27 minutes - a 6 part series.

Cheers Eten, I only just spotted this post.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock - I haven't been to Oz either but I have been to New Zealand and rather surprisingly bumped into Thommo there a couple of years ago. Less surprisingly perhaps, it was in the bar of Auckland's Eden Park ground. Unlike the blood lusting fast bowler of earlier years, he was friendly and came across as a decent guy.

If I can tune in my own wireless set, I'll give this new programme a go. From a bit of swotting up in advance, I do suspect though that some elements may be a bit too farfetched for my liking. Nothing like being openminded - and I'm probably not!

More seriously, thanks to etenguy for flagging and starting this thread.

Best regards,
OneRound

Hi OneRound,

Do they know that you've escaped from the A6 thread?

Thommo always seems s down to earth bloke when I've seen interviews with him. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to have been 22 yards away from him with a cricket ball in his hand though. It's not good if you're facing s team where Dennis Lillee isn't the quickest bowler in the side!

I'll certainly give this a go.

[OneRound]

I've never been to Oz but a mate of mine went over many years ago to watch cricket. He loved the place but I remember him saying that he couldn't make his mind up who to feel more sorry for? Him having to cope with the spiders or the England batsmen having to cope with Killer and Thommo

Hi Herlock - I haven't been to Oz either but I have been to New Zealand and rather surprisingly bumped into Thommo there a couple of years ago. Less surprisingly perhaps, it was in the bar of Auckland's Eden Park ground. Unlike the blood lusting fast bowler of earlier years, he was friendly and came across as a decent guy.

If I can tune in my own wireless set, I'll give this new programme a go. From a bit of swotting up in advance, I do suspect though that some elements may be a bit too farfetched for my liking. Nothing like being openminded - and I'm probably not!

More seriously, thanks to etenguy for flagging and starting this thread.

Best regards,
OneRound

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some of us,born in the first half of last century,grew up listening to the radio at night.
We had wood fired stove,copper for washing and a fire place in the front room.
Ice chest.
Outside dunny c/w redback spiders.Lit by a candle.
Chooks for eggs and meat.
Fruit trees,yum.

5 miles from Melbourne CBD.

I've never been to Oz but a mate of mine went over many years ago to watch cricket. He loved the place but I remember him saying that he couldn't make his mind up who to feel more sorry for? Him having to cope with the spiders or the England batsmen having to cope with Killer and Thommo

[Herlock Sholmes]

Lucky bugger, we had to go to the dunny in the dark. Sometimes had to dig a hole and empty the pan in we had visitors and fill the can before the dunny man came next.

You were lucky! We had to walk twenty miles to the nearest toilet and when we got back our dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

Oh, sorry....I got a bit carried away.

[GUT]

Some of us,born in the first half of last century,grew up listening to the radio at night.
We had wood fired stove,copper for washing and a fire place in the front room.
Ice chest.
Outside dunny c/w redback spiders.Lit by a candle.
Chooks for eggs and meat.
Fruit trees,yum.

5 miles from Melbourne CBD.

Lucky bugger, we had to go to the dunny in the dark. Sometimes had to dig a hole and empty the pan in we had visitors and fill the can before the dunny man came next.

[DJA]

Cheers Al, I was going to the the radiogram

Some of us,born in the first half of last century,grew up listening to the radio at night.
We had wood fired stove,copper for washing and a fire place in the front room.
Ice chest.
Outside dunny c/w redback spiders.Lit by a candle.
Chooks for eggs and meat.
Fruit trees,yum.

5 miles from Melbourne CBD.