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Did the Right Man Hang

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

    A fair point though. The Billingtons were the first 'family' executioners, later followed by Henry, Tom and Albert Pierrepoint.

    I haven't got into this case, but with regards to the vagrant being hung as a substitute, the historical dangers facing the Pierrepoints when hanging in Ireland must be worth considering.
    Hi Al - certainly, going over to Ireland as part of their hangman duties was often fraught with danger of retribution from friends and associates of the condemned. I vaguely remember reading of Albert selecting a long and involved journey home after one execution there so as to ensure a safe return.

    However, the Pierrepoints took their money and took their chances. They knew the risks of providing their services in Ireland and willingly undertook them. In this case, they understood Harold Courtney was their man. They wouldn't have sought to change that or had the clout to do so.

    There would have been enormous practical problems for anyone attempting to substitute Courtney with a new fall guy. Not least getting all the others who would need to be involved to agree and keep quiet.

    Best regards,
    OneRound

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    • #32
      Originally posted by OneRound View Post

      Hi Al - certainly, going over to Ireland as part of their hangman duties was often fraught with danger of retribution from friends and associates of the condemned. I vaguely remember reading of Albert selecting a long and involved journey home after one execution there so as to ensure a safe return.

      However, the Pierrepoints took their money and took their chances. They knew the risks of providing their services in Ireland and willingly undertook them. In this case, they understood Harold Courtney was their man. They wouldn't have sought to change that or had the clout to do so.

      There would have been enormous practical problems for anyone attempting to substitute Courtney with a new fall guy. Not least getting all the others who would need to be involved to agree and keep quiet.

      Best regards,
      OneRound
      They did indeed go to extra lengths in Ireland, including carrying a gun. Any scheduled execution attracted a turnout, and the hangmen were always a viable target for the IRA.

      I agree, having read a few books on the subject, the idea of 'switching' the condemned is ridiculous. A record of height and weight, along with the drop measurements were kept, so the vagrant would also need to be the same size. Another little obstacle to contend with.
      Thems the Vagaries.....

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        Cheers OneRound

        I've just listened through to episode four. I know what you mean about substance when you're dealing with anonymous sources and unverifiable statements. I won't spoil it for anyone by mentioning the contents of the episodes but I'm more willing to consider the abortion scenario than the suggestion that someone hanged in Courtenay's place.

        They discuss the medical evidence with a Professor Jack Crane but I'm surprised that they haven't raised the issue of the glove being pushed into the throat wound. Actually it hasn't been mentioned. Why not?

        It's an interesting programme though and I'm looking forward to #5.
        Hi Herlock

        I'm up to episode four now and agree with you, though I'm not finding it as interesting anymore - I found I was more interested in Gordon's surgery than the case. I'm hoping the last two episodes will contain some more substantial information. Drawing it out over six episodes was a mistake, I think. Unless episodes 5 and 6 are jammed pack with new information - this probably would have worked better as a one hour programme, at least for me.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by etenguy View Post

          Hi Herlock

          I'm up to episode four now and agree with you, though I'm not finding it as interesting anymore - I found I was more interested in Gordon's surgery than the case. I'm hoping the last two episodes will contain some more substantial information. Drawing it out over six episodes was a mistake, I think. Unless episodes 5 and 6 are jammed pack with new information - this probably would have worked better as a one hour programme, at least for me.
          Hi Eten,

          I agree. All that we've learned so far could have been told in 30 or 40 minutes no problem. Unless someone phones in or they find something with the wow factor it might end up a disappointment. It's an interesting story; but there's not two and a half hours worth. Fingers crossed for Gordon's surgery though.
          Regards

          Herlock




          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

          Comment


          • #35
            Episode 5 is up, but embargoed until the 12 December.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by etenguy View Post
              Episode 5 is up, but embargoed until the 12 December.
              Cheers Eten.

              By the way Jonathan Menges told me that there's a new book on the Wallace case out in January. It's called Checkmate and it can be pre-ordered from Mango Books. I emailed Antony about the author Mark Russell and he told me that he is a guy that thinks Wallace was guilty. It's a bit steep at 20 though.
              Regards

              Herlock




              “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
              “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
              “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
              “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
              “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                Cheers Eten.

                By the way Jonathan Menges told me that there's a new book on the Wallace case out in January. It's called Checkmate and it can be pre-ordered from Mango Books. I emailed Antony about the author Mark Russell and he told me that he is a guy that thinks Wallace was guilty. It's a bit steep at 20 though.
                Thanks Herlock - limited edition and signed for 20. I think there is a limited audience, so it is probably the best way to get some return on Mark's time. Shame it's not out before Christmas - would have been a nice gift option.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by etenguy View Post

                  Thanks Herlock - limited edition and signed for 20. I think there is a limited audience, so it is probably the best way to get some return on Mark's time. Shame it's not out before Christmas - would have been a nice gift option.
                  I'm certainly looking forward to it. Antony had heard of him but I hadn't.
                  Regards

                  Herlock




                  “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                  “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                  “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                  “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                  “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    I'm certainly looking forward to it. Antony had heard of him but I hadn't.
                    I'm not sure, the blurb was not compelling - I'm sure it will be a good book on the case but it is not promising any new insights, just restating the facts. Maybe when its published there will be more information that makes it more enticing.

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