Did the Right Man Hang

[Herlock Sholmes]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Rouse

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ahhh. Probably Alfred Rouse who faked his own death in a burning car.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The next series is called The Boy In The Burning Car. I'm going to try and see if I can find the case unless anyone is familiar with it. I know about the case of the woman in the burning car but not the boy? It sounds familiar though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I've just listened to episode 7 and it certainly merits a from me.

I won't spoil it of course but I'll mention one point which came up after the presenters asked a Defence Barrister to look at the trial. Courtenay protested his innocence as did his family. He was sentenced to death.

Why was there no appeal?

Worth another perhaps?

[OneRound]

Hi OneRound,

To be honest it would have to be both of you. Roger expressed the same opinion over on JTR Forums

Hokey doke, Herlock. That explains it. Hadn't seen the other thread. Couldn't really believe that a poster as sure footed as you had gone off the path.

Best regards,
OneRound

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yep, thanks from me too, Eten. Although I'm a long way from doubting Courtney's guilt and/or him having escaped the drop, I'm still enjoying the programme and will certainly tune in.

Hi Herlock - wondered if you were referring to me rather than 'Roger' in your post. Not an issue for me but obviously can't speak for the esteemed rjpalmer.

Best regards,
OneRound

Hi OneRound,

To be honest it would have to be both of you. Roger expressed the same opinion over on JTR Forums

[etenguy]

Yep, thanks from me too, Eten. Although I'm a long way from doubting Courtney's guilt and/or him having escaped the drop, I'm still enjoying the programme and will certainly tune in.

Best regards,
OneRound

It’s hard to see how the defence could hope to have carried a suicide verdict. Why would she have chosen that location to commit suicide? Would she really have thrown the knife 14 feet away and then bled to death? It’s just not believable. I can’t recall though if it was proven to have been the actual knife? The abortion theory is just about possible I think but I just can’t see someone being hanged in Courtenay’s place though. So far I’d have to agree with Roger that there’s just not enough there to convince that Courtenay wasn’t the killer. Episode 7 has to produce some ‘wow’ piece of evidence to change my opinion and, I’m guessing, everyone else’s.

I agree with you both going into the 7th episode - it seems more likely to me that an urban myth has grown around this case and that is what the reporters are hearing. Nevertheless, the reporters are engaging and the investigation is interesting. I'm not expecting any grand revelation but keen to hear from their star witness and what they have to add.

[OneRound]

Thanks for that Eten, I’m looking forward to it though I’m pretty much expecting an anti-climax. I had read the article that you posted and a couple of others. It’s hard to see how the defence could hope to have carried a suicide verdict. Why would she have chosen that location to commit suicide? Would she really have thrown the knife 14 feet away and then bled to death? It’s just not believable. I can’t recall though if it was proven to have been the actual knife? The abortion theory is just about possible I think but I just can’t see someone being hanged in Courtenay’s place though. So far I’d have to agree with Roger that there’s just not enough there to convince that Courtenay wasn’t the killer. Episode 7 has to produce some ‘wow’ piece of evidence to change my opinion and, I’m guessing, everyone else’s.

Yep, thanks from me too, Eten. Although I'm a long way from doubting Courtney's guilt and/or him having escaped the drop, I'm still enjoying the programme and will certainly tune in.

Hi Herlock - wondered if you were referring to me rather than 'Roger' in your post. Not an issue for me but obviously can't speak for the esteemed rjpalmer.

Best regards,
OneRound

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock and OneRound

The next, and final episode (I think - already episode 7 of a six part series) of 'Did the Right Man Hang' is broadcast at midday on Saturday (9th)

Enjoy.

Thanks for that Eten, I’m looking forward to it though I’m pretty much expecting an anti-climax. I had read the article that you posted and a couple of others. It’s hard to see how the defence could hope to have carried a suicide verdict. Why would she have chosen that location to commit suicide? Would she really have thrown the knife 14 feet away and then bled to death? It’s just not believable. I can’t recall though if it was proven to have been the actual knife? The abortion theory is just about possible I think but I just can’t see someone being hanged in Courtenay’s place though. So far I’d have to agree with Roger that there’s just not enough there to convince that Courtenay wasn’t the killer. Episode 7 has to produce some ‘wow’ piece of evidence to change my opinion and, I’m guessing, everyone else’s.

[etenguy]

Hi Herlock and OneRound

The next, and final episode (I think - already episode 7 of a six part series) of 'Did the Right Man Hang' is broadcast at midday on Saturday (9th)

Enjoy.

[etenguy]

Found this in the Belfast Telegraph of 05/07/2008:

Courtney protested his innocence to the end. But was this the end of this convicted killer? Rumours for years afterwards abounded in the Armagh area that Courtney was indeed alive and well in Australia, where he was said to have been seen by several people who took advantage of the £10 Programme.

They must have surely been mistaken, though, because the inquest into his death was carried out at Belfast Prison by the City Coroner, Mr T E Alexander, at 10 o'clock that same morning, two hours after the bolt was pulled. Pierrepoint was the reported executioner. Witnesses to the execution were: the prison medical officer, Dr O'Flaherty, Captain R W Stevens, the prison governor, and Mr Valentine Wilson, the Under-Sheriff for Co Armagh.

Full article at: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/i...-28247843.html

[etenguy]

Hi Eten,

I didn’t realise that the guy who has the Wallace book out in January used to post on here? I’m going to do a bit of reading through before I read his book (which ive pre-ordered) There’s a huge gap between when he first said that his book would be out soon until now. A gap of years in fact.

Have you ordered it?

Not yet, Herlock. I'll look in January.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock

The idea of a botched abortion is, as you say, entirely plausible. The coroner's report should help understand whether that is a likely possibility. I guess that is tied up with the records they can't access at the moment.

It is an interesting investigation, a bit of a fishing trip in some respects, but it seems they may have landed something. I agree that it would be good to have more such programs. I seem to remember a cold case series some time back, but cannot recall the name. Also, there is a BBC program - Murder, Mystery and my Family - which you may enjoy if you haven't already watched. Two barristers review historic murder cases that led to a death sentence but the evidence may not meet the standards of today (some on youtube and I would guess also iplayer).

Hi Eten,

Yes I saw both series of Murder, Mystery and My family but, just checking wiki, I didn’t know that there had been 4 series. I think that I’ve only seen two. There’s also a book out which I did consider getting but to be honest I was slightly put off by the fact that there were no photographs which I always like to see in a factual book.

.....

I didn’t realise that the guy who has the Wallace book out in January used to post on here? I’m going to do a bit of reading through before I read his book (which ive pre-ordered) There’s a huge gap between when he first said that his book would be out soon until now. A gap of years in fact.

Have you ordered it?

[etenguy]

Whilst I agree with OneRound that there’s no solid evidence that Courtenay didn’t kill Minnie rumours aren’t always necessarily false. Or there might be a kernel of truth within them. That there were more than one source (who had no knowledge of each other) saying that Minnie Reid died as a result of a botched abortion at least adds some weight to the suggestion. So I think that the suggestion is at least plausible. It’s more difficult of course to see how the wrong man could have been hanged but, as Eten mentions, there’s the discrepancy in height between the prison records and the ships manifest. It’s a tantalising suggestion but they would need to produce much more to make it a likely proposition.

I think it’s an interesting case and it’s just a pity that no one dug around 30 or 40 years ago and got to talk to some of those more closely involved (whether they would have talked of course) As it stands I’d go with both of you but with part of me still thinking that the botched abortion part is at least a plausible possibility. It will be interesting to see what episode 7 reveals. It’s a pity that there aren’t more podcasts like this.

Hi Herlock

The idea of a botched abortion is, as you say, entirely plausible. The coroner's report should help understand whether that is a likely possibility. I guess that is tied up with the records they can't access at the moment.

It is an interesting investigation, a bit of a fishing trip in some respects, but it seems they may have landed something. I agree that it would be good to have more such programs. I seem to remember a cold case series some time back, but cannot recall the name. Also, there is a BBC program - Murder, Mystery and my Family - which you may enjoy if you haven't already watched. Two barristers review historic murder cases that led to a death sentence but the evidence may not meet the standards of today (some on youtube and I would guess also iplayer).

[Herlock Sholmes]

Whilst I agree with OneRound that there’s no solid evidence that Courtenay didn’t kill Minnie rumours aren’t always necessarily false. Or there might be a kernel of truth within them. That there were more than one source (who had no knowledge of each other) saying that Minnie Reid died as a result of a botched abortion at least adds some weight to the suggestion. So I think that the suggestion is at least plausible. It’s more difficult of course to see how the wrong man could have been hanged but, as Eten mentions, there’s the discrepancy in height between the prison records and the ships manifest. It’s a tantalising suggestion but they would need to produce much more to make it a likely proposition.

I think it’s an interesting case and it’s just a pity that no one dug around 30 or 40 years ago and got to talk to some of those more closely involved (whether they would have talked of course) As it stands I’d go with both of you but with part of me still thinking that the botched abortion part is at least a plausible possibility. It will be interesting to see what episode 7 reveals. It’s a pity that there aren’t more podcasts like this.