Shark Arm Case

[ColdCaseJury]

Ok Antony, I have my pad back and have started your book

Herlock - enjoy and disagree! If you can only do one of the two, then definitely the first!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok Antony, I have my pad back and have started your book

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yep, it is a good case. Very interesting characters and circumstances. Early mixed reviews on my own book. I've had several people write to me personally saying it was fantastic, the best in the Cold Case Jury series, and yet two people have given it two stars on Amazon. I will be interested to hear your views, Herlock.

As soon as I get my pad back up and running I'll be getting it. If Boris is correct early December.

[ColdCaseJury]

I finished the Roope/Meagher book last night and I was impressed by the book itself. I was going to say that I'd recommend it to anyone but what I meant of course was...buy Antony's book 1st.

This is a far more interesting case than I'd expected. Before reading I was of the 'it must have been Brady' viewpoint but not now. Brady was a crook through and through but he was never violent and whilst I'm certain that he knew far more than he was willing to let on I don't think he was the killer.

Smith, as a known informer, was pretty much walking around carrying a sign saying "kill me."

As it stands I'd say that Brady might have taken the cottage at Cronulla on the instructions of Holmes or Stannard (possibly as a place where drugs or other contraband could be stashed) As Smith was becoming a serious liability it seems likely that he was taken to the cottage by Stannard and his henchmen. The rope found around his arm point to the fact that he was restrained. I think that he was then beaten/tortured (as suggested by Dave in an earlier post) to find out what information he'd given out and to whom.

Possibly Brady arrived at the cottage whilst this was going on. Inie Holmes described him as 'agitated, dirty and with cuts on his hands,' when he visited next day. Was he forced into helping move the body or, as Smith was a friend of his, did he try to get the killers to stop?

On the arm. Was it left at the cottage as a warning to Brady or was Brady told by Stannard to show Holmes? Either prove that Smith had been permanently silenced or because Stannard felt that Holmes was becoming a liability? I don't know.

I tend to think that Stannard killed Holmes. Summer's is convincing and Wynne backs him up.

These two murders weren't just personal. There was so much intimidation and corruption going on. Threatening letters and the watching men outside the courthouse intimidating witnesses. The forged letter and phone call saying that Smith was still alive point to Brady (likely under pressure from Stannard )

So I'd say Smith was killed by Stannard and henchmen with Holmes at least aware that Smith was being 'interrogated.' It's possible that he didn't expect him to be killed and that finding out about the murder tipped him over the edge. Brady was co-opted into the cover up and probably disposed of the arm ( with the threat of the police discovering that the murder occurred in his cottage) Holmes then becomes unstable and a threat to Stannard who arranges to meet him and shoots him in his car. Stannard and his wife's night at the cinema is weird. They miss the first hour of the movie so they watch the rest then hang around to see the first hour at the next showing and then later question a cinema worker and a car park attendant to ensure that they can recall there visit.

No revelations from me Antony. I'll be getting your ebook but I'll have to wait until lockdown is over so that I can hopefully get my pad fixed. I dislike reading books on a phone.

You were right though....an interesting case.

Yep, it is a good case. Very interesting characters and circumstances. Early mixed reviews on my own book. I've had several people write to me personally saying it was fantastic, the best in the Cold Case Jury series, and yet two people have given it two stars on Amazon. I will be interested to hear your views, Herlock.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I finished the Roope/Meagher book last night and I was impressed by the book itself. I was going to say that I'd recommend it to anyone but what I meant of course was...buy Antony's book 1st.

This is a far more interesting case than I'd expected. Before reading I was of the 'it must have been Brady' viewpoint but not now. Brady was a crook through and through but he was never violent and whilst I'm certain that he knew far more than he was willing to let on I don't think he was the killer.

Smith, as a known informer, was pretty much walking around carrying a sign saying "kill me."

As it stands I'd say that Brady might have taken the cottage at Cronulla on the instructions of Holmes or Stannard (possibly as a place where drugs or other contraband could be stashed) As Smith was becoming a serious liability it seems likely that he was taken to the cottage by Stannard and his henchmen. The rope found around his arm point to the fact that he was restrained. I think that he was then beaten/tortured (as suggested by Dave in an earlier post) to find out what information he'd given out and to whom.

Possibly Brady arrived at the cottage whilst this was going on. Inie Holmes described him as 'agitated, dirty and with cuts on his hands,' when he visited next day. Was he forced into helping move the body or, as Smith was a friend of his, did he try to get the killers to stop?

On the arm. Was it left at the cottage as a warning to Brady or was Brady told by Stannard to show Holmes? Either prove that Smith had been permanently silenced or because Stannard felt that Holmes was becoming a liability? I don't know.

I tend to think that Stannard killed Holmes. Summer's is convincing and Wynne backs him up.

These two murders weren't just personal. There was so much intimidation and corruption going on. Threatening letters and the watching men outside the courthouse intimidating witnesses. The forged letter and phone call saying that Smith was still alive point to Brady (likely under pressure from Stannard )

So I'd say Smith was killed by Stannard and henchmen with Holmes at least aware that Smith was being 'interrogated.' It's possible that he didn't expect him to be killed and that finding out about the murder tipped him over the edge. Brady was co-opted into the cover up and probably disposed of the arm ( with the threat of the police discovering that the murder occurred in his cottage) Holmes then becomes unstable and a threat to Stannard who arranges to meet him and shoots him in his car. Stannard and his wife's night at the cinema is weird. They miss the first hour of the movie so they watch the rest then hang around to see the first hour at the next showing and then later question a cinema worker and a car park attendant to ensure that they can recall there visit.

No revelations from me Antony. I'll be getting your ebook but I'll have to wait until lockdown is over so that I can hopefully get my pad fixed. I dislike reading books on a phone.

You were right though....an interesting case.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No! Bad Herlock! No!

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Antony, a phone call from a man with a gruff voice? Where have I heard that one before?

No! Bad Herlock! No!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok Antony I got the Roope and Meagher book today and I've just started it so I'll make points/ask questions as I go.

It appears that Smith didn't expect any kind of trouble? He asked his brother to accompany him on the trip so it seems that he genuinely expected a fishing trip that he was getting paid for and then he'd be going home.

At the risk of stating the obvious it looks like Smith was restrained before death as there was rope around his arm. Maybe his murder wasn't a foregone conclusion? Did someone want information from him?

Antony, a phone call from a man with a gruff voice? Where have I heard that one before?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Webster did not impress me in the Camb case. He was looking for medical conditions that Gay Gibson possibly suffered from (given scant evidence about her health) to suggest that Gay died naturally as Camb suggested. It was theory before facts. How did he do in the Wych Elm case?

I can’t see that he did much wrong to be honest. A lot of the evidence has vanished though. No one even knows where the skeleton is. If it’s been buried no one knows where.

Im reading The Case That Foiled Fabian at the moment about the murder of Charles Walton in 1945. Webster was called in on that one too. He appears to have been highly regarded but that doesn’t make him immune from error of course.

Should get my first Shark Arm book next week. Then it’s yours

[ColdCaseJury]

Just noticed that Professer Webster in the ‘Who Put Bella In The Wych Elm’ case also appeared for the defence in the Porthole Murder case which was Antony’s second Cold Case book.

Webster did not impress me in the Camb case. He was looking for medical conditions that Gay Gibson possibly suffered from (given scant evidence about her health) to suggest that Gay died naturally as Camb suggested. It was theory before facts. How did he do in the Wych Elm case?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just noticed that Professer Webster in the ‘Who Put Bella In The Wych Elm’ case also appeared for the defence in the Porthole Murder case which was Antony’s second Cold Case book.

[Abby Normal]

I though that Fish might have a crack at that one Abby? Hadn’t Debra Arif done some research on the torso’s too? A joint venture maybe?

The problem for Antony is that there aren’t any suspects. Apart from you-know-who from Fish of course.

i think fish said ed stow may be working on one from that angle. yes debras done some great work on it and ive often asked her to wite one, not sure if shes helping ed or not.

full disclosure..as you know i lean toward torsoman and the ripper being the same, and lech is one of the only suspects fit tje bill agewise for that so lech has been slowly climbing my list for viable suspects.

but yes a good book on the torsos is long past due.

[Herlock Sholmes]

a book on the torsos would be good. still waiting for someone to jump on that one!

I though that Fish might have a crack at that one Abby? Hadn’t Debra Arif done some research on the torso’s too? A joint venture maybe?

The problem for Antony is that there aren’t any suspects. Apart from you-know-who from Fish of course.

[Abby Normal]

Brady is involved at least in that he covered something up at the cottage, but this does not mean he is guilty of murder. The interesting question is what is the extent of his involvement. The major authors prior to me (Castles, Roope) both find Brady - at most - an accessory after the fact - so hopefully that should at least tell you that there is an interesting case in the detail.



I have 3 cases in mind. But I'm always open to suggestions, especially for someone as well travelled in true crime such as yourself, and others on this forum.

a book on the torsos would be good. still waiting for someone to jump on that one!

[ColdCaseJury]

I’m looking forward to getting a couple of books on the case as I can see where Abby’s coming from. Purely from reading what’s online I'm being pointed heavily toward Brady having to have been involved. I know from experience with Antony’s previous books though that he wouldn’t have chosen it if it was straightforward.

Brady is involved at least in that he covered something up at the cottage, but this does not mean he is guilty of murder. The interesting question is what is the extent of his involvement. The major authors prior to me (Castles, Roope) both find Brady - at most - an accessory after the fact - so hopefully that should at least tell you that there is an interesting case in the detail.

Im not asking for names of course Antony but have you got anything in mind as your next case yet?

I have 3 cases in mind. But I'm always open to suggestions, especially for someone as well travelled in true crime such as yourself, and others on this forum.