lucan

[Magpie]

"Magpie: Do you believe that Sandra was the target???? She wasn't even supposed to be working that night."

I think "target" is attributing a unwarranted degree of intention to the attack. I'm not sure there was a "target" that night--just a set of circumstances that resulted in a victim.

"Magpie: Are you implying that Lady Lucan killed the nanny and tried to frame her husband to get custody?'

Imply that a litigious member of the nobility with a phalanx of lawyers and possibly something to hide may have committed murder and got away with it? Moi?

It's good to see that you are willing to start thinking outside the confines of the Official Version, but you are still hindering yourself with the assumption that it's all about Lord Lucan and his wife and the conflict between them. Even the current Lord Lucan rejects the notion that the events of that night had anything to do with the custody battle.

[DrummondStreet]

Magpie: Are you implying that Lady Lucan killed the nanny and tried to frame her husband to get custody?

If so, Lucan's very own account of events would absolve her. He claimed to see a man struggling with his wife in the basement. Not two women (Veronica + Sandra) but a man and a woman.

[DrummondStreet]

Magpie: Do you believe that Sandra was the target???? She wasn't even supposed to be working that night.

Veronica was the intended victim. It was her house and she was in the midst of a very bitter custody battle (that she was winning).

Also, the murder weapon was a lead pipe wrapped in surgical tape. Two such items were found. One was covered in blood and laying on the floor at the crime scene and the second (unused) but similarly wrapped pipe was found in the trunk of the car that Lord Lucan had borrowed.

[louisa]

What makes you think that the killer didn't accomplish their goal?

Edit: Sorry, that sounded snotty. Obviously anyone who accepts the official story also accepts that the killer didn't accomplish their goal. What I was trying to convey was "what if the killer did accomplish their goal?"

So what was the goal? To kill the nanny? In my opinion....definitely not.

DrummondStreet's scenario sounds very plausible to me.

[Magpie]

If it must be asked why didn't Lucan finish the job then it is also a fair question to ask why didn't the alternative-theory-killer finish the job either. The fact that the killer (Lucan or someone else) failed to accomplish their goal simply points to inexperience, IMO.

What makes you think that the killer didn't accomplish their goal?

Edit: Sorry, that sounded snotty. Obviously anyone who accepts the official story also accepts that the killer didn't accomplish their goal. What I was trying to convey was "what if the killer did accomplish their goal?"

[DrummondStreet]

A number of people are questioning why Lucan didn't finish the plan to murder his wife. Well, it wasn't for a lack of trying. He first hit her on the head and then tried to choke her and gouge her eyes out. Lady Lucan was able to escape by squeezing his testicles until he collapsed (and good for her, I'll bet he never anticipated that she was such a fighter.)

If it must be asked why didn't Lucan finish the job then it is also a fair question to ask why didn't the alternative-theory-killer finish the job either. The fact that the killer (Lucan or someone else) failed to accomplish their goal simply points to inexperience, IMO.
In answer to my own question, one could say that the alternative-theory-killer didn't finish the job because Lord Lucan heroically (cough, cough) interrupted him. That being said...

I still believe that Lucan just lost his nerve after his wife won the first round.

[DrummondStreet]

I believe he'd probably had difficulty working up the nerve to kill and having done so when the opportunity came to kill his actual intended victim, he couldn't bring himself to kill again. It seems psychologically plausible to me. We're not talking about a hardened killer.

I agree with both kidtwist and Louisa. He must have been physically and emotionally incapacitated by the murder of Sandra and the attempted murder /physical fight with his wife (Lady Lucan was impressively scrappy). He wasn't a professional hitman.

But the question remains: why did he wait at all? And having waited, why didn't he follow through?

Magpie: I addressed that in my post. See below.

After accidentally murdering the nanny, it is possible that he was just biding his time downstairs until everyone went to bed, so he wouldn't have to kill Lady Lucan in front of their children.

It is also possible that the murder of Sandra had finished just moments before Lady Lucan stumbled across the scene. If that was the case, Lucan hadn't been waiting for his wife at all.

[louisa]

Yes I agree. When he saw his injured wife and remembered about the woman he'd already murdered, his nerve deserted him.

[kidtwist]

I believe he'd probably had difficulty working up the nerve to kill and having done so when the opportunity came to kill his actual intended victim, he couldn't bring himself to kill again. It seems psychologically plausible to me. We're not talking about a hardened killer.

[louisa]

I think that when Lady Lucan came down to look for Sandra Rivett, Lord Lucan became shocked and confused. He thought he'd killed her, but clearly she was still alive. He was psyched up to kill his wife that night and I think that was why he attacked her when he saw her.

His behaviour that night during and after the killing was very bizarre and I would say was not that of an innocent man.

[Magpie]

In reality, he didn't have to wait that long as his wife came looking for the nanny after about 20 minutes. .

But the question remains: why did he wait at all? And having waited, why didn't he follow through?

[Ally]

I believe Lady Lucan's account of events. Lord Lucifer's story just does not add up and wasn't backed by forensics either. Not to mention he didn't exactly behave like an innocent man. If he were innocent, why would he flee the house after his wife left? His children were still inside and wouldn't he be worried about their safety should the intruder return? He knew the kids weren't targets because HE was the killer.

Yes but this still doesn't explain why exactly he didn't go through with killing his wife. I mean he'd already killed the nanny. If he was overcome with remorse, then he could have just left. If he wasn't still determined to kill the wife, why wait and assault her. After assaulting her, why not FINISH it, rather than just kind of half-heartedly whacking her a bit and then giving her a chance to escape. I mean it really does not make any kind of sense, whatsoever.

[DrummondStreet]

Especially since he supposedly killed the nanny, realized his mistake, then went from the basement to main floor and waited in hiding for his wife to come looking for her (which giving the already discussed "established routine" might have been never), then when she does come looking for the nanny, instead of simply pushing her down the stairs he proceeds to make a right dog's breakfast of his ambush.

In reality, he didn't have to wait that long as his wife came looking for the nanny after about 20 minutes. After accidentally murdering the nanny, it is possible that he was just biding his time downstairs until everyone went to bed, so he wouldn't have to kill Lady Lucan in front of their children. The fact that she wandered down to the kitchen looking for Sandra meant that Plan B needed to be executed (pardon the pun) sooner than intended. Does it really make a difference whether he pushed her down the stairs or bludgeoned her???? He obviously wasn't a professional killer and certainly wasn't at the top of his game having botched his first attempt.

I believe Lady Lucan's account of events. Lord Lucifer's story just does not add up and wasn't backed by forensics either. Not to mention he didn't exactly behave like an innocent man. If he were innocent, why would he flee the house after his wife left? His children were still inside and wouldn't he be worried about their safety should the intruder return? He knew the kids weren't targets because HE was the killer.

[louisa]

He didn't intend to kill the nanny. His intended victim was his wife.

The night of the killing was normally the nanny's night off. The procedure then (always the same) was for the wife to go down to the kitchen and make tea. She and the nanny (Sandra Rivett) were about the same height and build.

Lord Lucan was heavily in debt. He was separated from his wife who had custody of the two children. His life was going pear shaped. Any money he had was going towards the court case and he was in danger of losing it all.

[Magpie]

This is an interesting case, I had never heard of it before. What I don't get is, if he hated his wife and the aim was to kill her, why'd he stop after killing the nanny? I mean, I know he hit the wife, but it makes no sense that after killing the nanny, he just..what? gives up on killing the wife? I mean what was the business with even getting the towel? Why didn't he just kill her?

That's a biggie.

Especially since he supposedly killed the nanny, realized his mistake, then went from the basement to main floor and waited in hiding for his wife to come looking for her (which giving the already discussed "established routine" might have been never), then when she does come looking for the nanny, instead of simply pushing her down the stairs he proceeds to make a right dog's breakfast of his ambush.