kennedy assassination

[dougie]

Raiload signalman/supervisor Lee Bowers observed (from his 14ft high tower just north of the grassy knoll) the very suspicious comings and goings of three cars (two of which had out-of-state licence plates) in the sealed off railroad yards just prior to the motorcade's arrival. He observed also the behaviour of 4 men in the area overlooking the knoll (behind the picket fence).Bowers said he heard 3 shots. Immediately after the last shot, the third car (a white Chevrolet Impala) which had been out out sight when the first shot was fired, came into view again. There was a a very noticeable commotion around the picket fence area which made him feel something extraordinary had happened ( "a flash of light or smoke or something" ) there.

Bowers testified before the Warren Commission to all that he had witnessed from his vantage point but he was cut off in mid-sentence by Joe Ball just as he was about to elaborate further. Ball then diverted the conversation away from this important evidence (talk about only hearing what you want hear !) to something completely different.

Bowers died in a mysterious car accident just over 2 and a half years later, just one of far too many convenient deaths that occurred over a short period of time in the aftermath of the assassination. There were no witnesses to this crash.

mary
Lee bowers said to the warren commission "that there was some kind of commotion atop the grassy knoll" when asked what he meant he said "it was something out of the ordinary,something occurred which attracted my eye,but for some reason i couldnt identify it"
Counsel....."you couldnt describe it?"
Bowers..."nothing that i could pinpoint as having happened"
That testimony was before the warren commission on april 2 1964
However 4 months earlier,on the afternoon of the assassination he gave a sworn "state of texas ,county of dallas" affadavit in which he said Nothing at all about the commotion and activity behind the picket fence which supposedly attracted his attention.This affadavit was prepared and signed by him ,it wasnt a yes or no set of answers to carefully selected questions.
furthermore another time he said he saw three seperate cars drive into ,out of whatever the parking lot....11.55 a.m another at 12.15 a.m....and yet another complete with a mic and god knows what else at approx 12.18 p.m. he also stated that the area had been covered by police for some two hours.No police apparently saw these spectral cars,or for that matter any other ghostly apparitions. why? cos traffic had been cut off within those areas since 10 a.m that morning.
AGAIN bOWERS had been interviewed by the dallas sheriffs dept on the afternoon of the assassination and not mentioned one word of this,or indeed the magic pudff of smoke ,or the commotion.
So there you are, Bowers couldnt describe what he saw to the warren commission,but when interviewed by mark lane (aka hans christian anderson ) over two years later he suddenly recalled the "flash of light and puff of smoke" if mark lane had interviewed bowers long enough we would probabley have bowers recalling he saw LBJ and R uby with machine guns on the grassy knoll ..it woyuld take a hell of a lot of that magic smoke to get in ones eyes before we could believe bowers.
this "mysterious death" nonsense....be sensible..here we have bowers allready made affadavits, testified before the warren commission,interviewed by mark lane, told his story etc....and you can imagine cant you...trafficante, marcello, and LBJ sitting together in some smoke filled shithouse somewhere engaged in this kind of conversation..
LBJ .."well guys we got a problem"
trafficante "yeah i know lyndon.we gotta whack this bowers guy,he knows too much,we will make him an offer he cant refuse right?"
LBJ
"ok guys do what you gotta do..before he squeals"
marcello..."consider it done LB"
TWO BLOODY YEARS AFTERWARDS?...i mean the mob, lbj, the f.b.i waited TWO WHOLE YEARS? for gods sake..and you believe the implication of the so-called "mysterious death" issue?.

[jimarilyn]

Here's a neat website and the James E. Files interview is interesting.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/index.htm

Hi Stephen,

I am very familiar with that excellent website and you're spot on. The Files interview is intriguing. I have the "Files on JFK" DVD which is very impressive and I recommend it highly. This November 2003 interview of Files by Wim Dankbaar and Jim Marrs is about 3 hours long and a real eye-opener. I'm no expert psychologist or anything but Files comes across as a very truthful person, one who knows exactly what he is talking about.

[detective abberline]

Jfk

Hi Dougie. Thanks Stephen for the link to the JFK website. Dougie, if you haven't had a look yet go and check it out. I haven't had a chance to view it all but they have the Zapruder film in slow motion and I know I'm not an expert but HE WAS SHOT FROM THE FRONT. IMO. They also show a lot of photos taken just after the shooting and the Newman family it is who are lying down in front of the grassy knoll. I must do some research on what Newman said.

Regards

[Stephen Thomas]

Here's a neat website and the James E. Files interview is interesting.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/index.htm

[jimarilyn]

**** The parking lot behind the picket fence by the way was a a parking area for the sheriffs dept and dallas county criminal courts building.Cars from the sheriffs dept and district attorneys office parked there. It had been patrolled from 2 hours before the motorcade.Since 10 a.m traffic had been cut off into the area so that anyone moving around there could be observed.** Placing a hitman for the biggest hit in american history,knowing that the shooter would be in full view ,and in the line of sight of spectators following the motorcade and, very close to spectators who could be expected to be at ,oraround the place where the hitman would fire from,seems a reckless thing to do, certainly not the actions of a professional assassin.Its odd that the picket fence gunman,comparitively out in the open,in front of the action,in the line of sight of many onlookers and possible photographers was not seen or photographed before,during of after the event by one single living thing.the whole grassy knoll story is a myth..it didnt happen that way.

Raiload signalman/supervisor Lee Bowers observed (from his 14ft high tower just north of the grassy knoll) the very suspicious comings and goings of three cars (two of which had out-of-state licence plates) in the sealed off railroad yards just prior to the motorcade's arrival. He observed also the behaviour of 4 men in the area overlooking the knoll (behind the picket fence).Bowers said he heard 3 shots. Immediately after the last shot, the third car (a white Chevrolet Impala) which had been out out sight when the first shot was fired, came into view again. There was a a very noticeable commotion around the picket fence area which made him feel something extraordinary had happened ( "a flash of light or smoke or something" ) there.

Bowers testified before the Warren Commission to all that he had witnessed from his vantage point but he was cut off in mid-sentence by Joe Ball just as he was about to elaborate further. Ball then diverted the conversation away from this important evidence (talk about only hearing what you want hear !) to something completely different.

Bowers died in a mysterious car accident just over 2 and a half years later, just one of far too many convenient deaths that occurred over a short period of time in the aftermath of the assassination. There were no witnesses to this crash.

[dougie]

Hi abberline,
Reports and studies show that the ratio of witnesses hearing shots from different directions are thus...
behind the motorcade (book depos area) front(grassy knoll etc)
132-144 people 4-6 people
(based on 3 studies)
number of shots heard
3 shots heard 4 shots or more heard

144 people 8 people

pretty conclusive i believe
Walter Cronkite said " To accept a grassy knoll gunman/gunmen we would need to believe an assassin materialised out of thin air, fired, vanished again into thin air, leaving no trace either of himself,rifle, bullet(s) or indeed any other sign of his existence"
The parking lot behind the picket fence by the way was a a parking area for the sheriffs dept and dallas county criminal courts building.Cars from the sheriffs dept and district attorneys office parked there. It had been patrolled from 2 hours before the motorcade.Since 10 a.m traffic had been cut off into the area so that anyone moving around there could be observed.
Placing a hitman for the biggest hit in american history,knowing that the shooter would be in full view ,and in the line of sight of spectators following the motorcade and, very close to spectators who could be expected to be at ,or
around the place where the hitman would fire from,seems a reckless thing to do, certainly not the actions of a professional assassin.Its odd that the picket fence gunman,comparitively out in the open,in front of the action,in the line of sight of many onlookers and possible photographers was not seen or photographed before,during of after the event by one single living thing.the whole grassy knoll story is a myth..it didnt happen that way,it couldnt have......there isnt one single shred of evidence to suggest oswald didnt act alone.....a lot of this conspiracy stuff sounds interesting at face value, but when its looked at in depth.. there is nothing at all to it.but its easy to be fooled ,i guess most people interested in the issue have been at one time or another..me included.
regards

[detective abberline]

Jfk

Hi Dougie. It only takes 2 people to make a conspiracy and Oswald was one of them. Thanks for the quotes from police officers. I hadn't read that before. Let's face it, with Kennedy all you hear about is what the police didn't do. But it doesn't change my belief that JFK was hit from the front. The people lining the street on the grassy knoll were questioned about what happened. Here I'm relying on my memory other wise I'll have to do a Kennedy search. One man had his family with him and he'd served in Korea I think. He'd been under fire and he said that the shot came from behind him.
Oswald wasn't a good shot and the Mannlicher would not be the weapon of choice for a presidential assassin from a 6th floor position. IMO.

Regards

[dougie]

Hi Dougie.

Like many other tourists I have visited Dealey Plaza and the 6th floor of the Book Depository which is now a museum. I have stood on the grassy knoll.

I do not believe Oswald killed Kennedy. However, I believe he was part of a conspiracy. I believe he shot at JFK and possibly hit him. But when you stand on the 6th floor of the school book depository, the tree is there( and was when JKF went by) and you go to the grassy knoll and it's a killing field.

hi abberline,
I visited dealey plaza in 88, when I too was fascinated by the conspiracy theory and thought there might be "something to it". My views now are completely the opposite.
The evidence regarding oswald s guilt is conclusive ,there is no real doubt..on the other hand the evidence regarding oswalds innocence or of his taking part in a conspiracy,or being a patsy is as rare as a van gogh painting in a doss house
The grassy knoll would have been a rather silly choice for any "hitman".After firing at the president, where would he go? he would have had to flee (presumabley still carrying his rifle in his hands)through the wide open parking lot ,across the tracks and would easily have been observed by many people.....Dallas deputy shefiff Buddy walthers said" iVE HEARD some say the assassin was behind the fence (grassy knoll),and im telling you it just cant be,because its a wide open area..as far as you can go.the thought that anyone would be shooting off from there would be an almost impossible thing.theres no place for him to go.theres nothing."....dallas deputy sheriff W.W. Mabra said that right after the shots he went to the rail yard and parking area behind the knoll ,behind the picket fence and spoke to a uniformed dallas police officer who testified" i was stationed in the rail yards and had the entire area in view....nobody came this way. there hasnt been a thingmove back here in an hour or more because ive been here all that time"
the picket fence on the grassy knoll was an awful locatio n .
regards

[detective abberline]

Jfk

Hi Dougie.

Like many other tourists I have visited Dealey Plaza and the 6th floor of the Book Depository which is now a museum. I have stood on the grassy knoll.

I do not believe Oswald killed Kennedy. However, I believe he was part of a conspiracy. I believe he shot at JFK and possibly hit him. But when you stand on the 6th floor of the school book depository, the tree is there( and was when JKF went by) and you go to the grassy knoll and it's a killing field.

[steje73]

Yes, Oswald was on the 6th floor, but within 90 seconds of the shooting he was seen in the first floor canteen looking unruffled. The palm print was an old one that was only found after dismantling the rifle. The fibres were from a shirt that he wasn't even wearing at the time and so were also probably from at least a few days beforehand.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but these pieces of 'evidence' are a bit shaky. That said, they're a heck of a lot more realistic than the whole 'grassy knoll/Daltex building/hiding in a drain/Cuban/Mafia/every bugger else' theories that people seem keen to believe.
And the whole Tippett thing seems a stretch, as the murderer was seen walking towards the scene from the opposite direction than Oswald would have come from, or even been able to get to in the time frame of both murders.
I don't pretend to know for sure who did it, but to me it seems MORE LIKELY that Oswald shot Kennedy but not Tippett.

[dougie]

I've never heard such unadulterated codswallop in my entire life. Have you ever even seen the book cover (never mind read) of this whitewash of a report which set out with the premeditated premise that Lee Oswald was the sole assassin of John F Kennedy. Are you the infamous Gerald Posner in disguise by any chance ? There are none so blind as those who WILL not see......

Ive read the abridged version, but ive not (thank god) read "Mrs paines garage" yet....and have no intention of so doing.There were over 50 pieces of direct evidence connecting oswald to the murder....only minor stuff mind you like the bullets came from oswalds rifle to the exclusion of all others, oswalds finger or palm print on the rifle ....the box used to rest the rifle on....1 of the 4 bullets in the killing of tippet came from oswalds pistol ..to the exclusion of any other pistol....the other 3 "most likely came from same pistol...fibres matching those of oswalds shirt on the rifle which fired the shots.....the rifle bought by oswald, signed for in oswalds handwriting.....pistol the same.....oswald was on the sixth floor of depository...10 witnesses saw oswald either shooting tippit,running away from the scene or emptying spent cartridges from said pistol .....the rifle which was used to kill kennedy was in a photo together with oswald taken months before assassination.....now ive heard of circumstancial evidence ..but that is ridicolous......and that in part was why members of the commission acted with the thought in mind that oswald was the killer...it was that bloody obvious!If there was another assassin,if there was a conspiracy ,if oswald was a patsy then you might be excused for thinking that by now someone,indeed anyone might have produced one single ,sensible,minute shred of evidence that would give people other than the lunatic conspiracy fellowship pause for thought.so far it has not happened.maybe you know better? if so present your evidence.
If you read the warren report ,then it sounds to me as though you are incapable of understanding what you read....i can understand those who havent read the report saying its a whitewash ,but if you have read it and say its a whitewash ..then you are nuts....i wont call you a moron...ill give you the benefit of the doubt on that (reluctantly)
Who are you? Garrisons great aunt by any chance?

[jimarilyn]

Compelling?
wHAT does LBJ establishing the warren commission have to do with it?And where is the evidence to show the warren report was "questionable"?
And as it has been proved beyond doubt that oswald did the deed,wouldnt one think that if LBJ was involved,he would have at least employed a professional "top of the range" hitman,and not a seriously disturbed person like oswald? ..or indeed an almost childlike (again disturbed individual) like Ruby to "knock off" oswald?.....makes no sense at all.
regards

I've never heard such unadulterated codswallop in my entire life. Have you ever even seen the book cover (never mind read) of this whitewash of a report which set out with the premeditated premise that Lee Oswald was the sole assassin of John F Kennedy. Are you the infamous Gerald Posner in disguise by any chance ? There are none so blind as those who WILL not see......

[dougie]

The view presented in The Texas Connection by Zirbel about LBJ and Hunt being behind the assassination, especially given the facts that LBJ established the questionable Warren Commission and was the only one to benefit from the assassination, seems compelling.

Compelling?
wHAT does LBJ establishing the warren commission have to do with it?And where is the evidence to show the warren report was "questionable"?
And as it has been proved beyond doubt that oswald did the deed,wouldnt one think that if LBJ was involved,he would have at least employed a professional "top of the range" hitman,and not a seriously disturbed person like oswald? ..or indeed an almost childlike (again disturbed individual) like Ruby to "knock off" oswald?.....makes no sense at all.
regards

[denn034]

The Texas Connection - Zirbel

The view presented in The Texas Connection by Zirbel about LBJ and Hunt being behind the assassination, especially given the facts that LBJ established the questionable Warren Commission and was the only one to benefit from the assassination, seems compelling.

[dougie]

And im going to strap on my Boise eadfones and retreat into fantasy musical extravaganza mode with a Led Zep album.....tune in-turn on-drop out man!!