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  • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
    Is it just me or is there a patten forming here of people who were [in this case 12 feet away from the President when he was shot ] closest to, and saw Physical Evidence that directly contradicts the W.C junk , who where actually shot themselves in the process, that all must be ..... See all the above 1,2,3,4


    A BUNCH OF COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOTS AND MORONS .
    Brilliant Fishy. You’re a genius. Of course…..people in traumatic situations where they were in fear for their lives and in some cases the lives of their children, can’t be mistaken. I wish that I’d thought of that.

    And of course, 3 pathologists specifically examining wounds in minute detail can be wrong. And 14 pathologists examining the report, the x-rays, the autopsy photos, and the Presidents clothing where all wrong.

    To be honest Fishy, it’s a wonder that they bothered performing an autopsy when they could simply have asked a man in the street. Nice thinking.
    Regards

    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

      No other gunman identified and no knowledge of the conspiracy or could have been involved = no evidence of conspiracy
      And absolute, conclusive medical proof that the two shots came from the front Wulf. Despite what Fishy, George and Kevin Costner tell us.

      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

      Comment


      • Well, ladies and gents of the forum. Here we have it. Conspiracist thinking revealed. Neither of our two hero’s have made even a remote effort to question the pathologists findings. They clearly wouldn’t have read my post because, by their own admission, they only read conspiracy theory texts.

        Who needs pathologists when you have the man in the street, George’s ballistics knowledge, and Nurse Bell…..with Fishy cheering them on.

        Conspiracy theorists laid bare.
        Regards

        Sir Herlock Sholmes.

        “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

        Comment


        • And notice how George hasn’t responded to or acknowledged he fact the Dr. McClelland has admitted that he was wrong about the location of the head wound and that the drawing that he did (which George used) was misleading? And how do we now know this? Because Vincent Bugliosi didn’t just take the conspiracist narrative at face value. He actually spoke to Dr. McClelland at length. He never once suggested that the doctor was a liar, he never threatened or bullied him and the ‘conspirators’ didn’t threaten him with a bullet.

          He also didn’t threaten or misquote Dr. Carrico. He simply asked him if he and the others could have been mistaken, to which he replied:” absolutely.”

          Just facts.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

            But evidence of a 2nd shooter = conspiracy does it not.?
            The problem is that for every point of your conspiracy there are (more) points the other way. Evidence of a conspiracy must therefore come from knowing who the other gunman was (or at least a good idea) and who he was working for/organisations/extent of the conspiracy - these are the points the select committee were clueless on.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
              Just a few witnesses.
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              Lets look at another one of these witnesses that George uses shall we.

              Virgil ‘Ed’ Hoffman.

              He was a deaf mute who appeared after he suddenly recalled, 4 years after the assassination, that he’d been standing off the Stemmons freeway near to the Texas and Pacific Railroad bridge, where just after the shooting he saw 2 white males running from the back of the TSBD clutching something dark to their chests. He had a difficult time communicating because he didn’t read lips and was only semi-literate. When it was pointed out to him by Special Agent Will Hayden Griffin that from his claimed location he wouldn’t have been able to see the rear of the TSBD because of a 6 foot fence that ran for 150 feet north of the building. Two hours after the interview Hoffman returned from visiting the spot and admitted that Agent Griffin was absolutely correct but that it was possible that he’d seen them from somewhere else! By the way, Roy Truly said that the fence was put up 2 years prior to the assassination which is clearly why Hoffman was caught out.

              Then on July 5th 1967 Huffman’s father and brother told the FBI that his son:”…..has in the past distorted facts of events observed by him. Both the father an brother said that Virgil Hoffman loved President Kennedy and had mentioned to them just after the assassination that…….he saw numerous men running after the President was shot. The father stated that he did not believe his son had seen anything of value and doubted he had seen any men running from the TSBD, and for this reason did not mention it to the FBI.

              Hoffman then later claimed that his father and uncle had told him that it would have been dangerous to say what he saw because of:” the C.I.A. or some other persons.”

              It’s worth noting that in 1964 James E. Romack and George W. Tackler told the FBI that they were standing about 35 yards to the rear of the TSBD at the time of the shots and facing the rear of the building and they saw absolutely no one.

              Then, amazingly, 10 years later Hoffman emerged again. In March 21st 1977 he now told the FBI that he now remembered that the two men that he’d seen were actually, you’ve guessed it, behind the picket fence. From his position on the Stemmons Freeway he saw one man with a rifle and one man with a handgun. The man with the rifle looked like he was breaking it down (because he obviously had plenty of time on his hands) These 2 phantoms then ran north of the railroad tracks. Both were white man and get this….they were both ‘camouflaged’ in white suits! On March 28th, FBI Agent Udo H. Specht got Hoffman to take him to the spot where he claimed to have been at the time. Specht estimated that it was a full 200 yard from the location behind the picket fence. Hoffman also claimed that he tied getting the attention of a Dallas police officer but couldn’t communicate with him. In 1988 Hoffman claimed that the FBI offered him money to keep quiet!

              And this is the kind of ‘witness’ that George cites over the evidence of 17 pathologists.
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

              Comment


              • Let’s now look at conspiracy theorist icon Beverley Oliver, known as ‘the Babushka Lady.’

                She claimed to have seen Police Officer Roscoe White (who is one of the dozens named as an assassin) walking away from Dealey Paza after the assassination. The problem is that on November 22nd 1963 White was only hired as an apprentice. He didn’t begin his training at the academy until December 4th. He graduated on February 28th 1964.

                Apart from singing in the strip club next to Jack Ruby’s (a cracking fact for conspiracy theorists) this is another witness who mentioned nothing at the time of the assassination, surfacing only in 1970 when she claimed to have been the, until then, unidentified ‘Babushka Lady,’ so called because of her clothing. She’s seen in frame 55 of the Mary Muchmore photograph with her back to the camera.

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                It looks like she’s holding something but we have no way telling if she was or not. She met conspiracy theorist Gary Shaw at a church revival in Texas in 1970. She has never been able to prove that she was actually in Dallas that day but she claimed to have filmed with a Super-8 Yashica movie camera but that 2 never identified FBI agents came to her workplace at the Colony Club and took her film with giving her a receipt. Neither she nor anyone else could explain how they could have known where she worked though. The big problem though was that assassination researcher Jerry Ruffner contacted Yashica and they told him that they hadn’t put the Super 8 onto the USA market until 1969…6 years after the assassination.

                Despite originally being confident and exact about the model, when confronted about this, she responded in an article by this piece of brilliance, that the camera:”…might not even have had a manufacturer’s model name on it……Yashica, Fushika, who really cares what kind of camera it was…..I had a new camera a friend gave me, saying it was ‘experimental,’ a camera which no one else in Dallas had at the time.

                She later said that the woman identified by Gary Shaw in his book ‘Cover Up,’ :” is not me.” But she still maintained that she was in Dealey Plaza that day though she ‘forgot’ to mention where she’d stood while she filmed the entire assassination in graphic detail!

                This woman later told conspiracy theorists, who were still desperately willing to listed]n to her crap, that her friend, a stripper called Janet Conforto (known as Jada) had sat in a booth at the Carousel Club with Jack Ruby who introduced her to Lee Harvey Oswald despite Jada telling the FBI in 1963 that she’d never seen Oswald with Ruby or anywhere else. She later embellished her story to include David Ferrie.

                Oliver is a regular on the conspiracist bandwagon. Another nice pick from George.
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
                  Just a few witnesses.
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                  Now let’s look at where they’re pointing and then look at Zapruder frame 313 point of impact.

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                  Notice the direction of the blood spray?

                  Forward. Due to a shot from behind.
                  Regards

                  Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                  “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                  Comment


                  • The actual spray of brain and bone fragments. Jackie didn't climb forward to retrieve part of the President's skull.

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                    It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                    ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                    Comment


                    • The FPP gathered evidence indicating a possible exit point located at the top rear of Kennedy’s head, and then quashed that evidence.

                      The forward right half of Kennedy’s coronal suture was not on the skull when the X-rays and photographs were taken because the Triangular fragment (and its half of the coronal suture) had not yet arrived at the morgue. Likewise, and according to the FPP, the bone that makes up the other side of the coronal suture, the anterior-most portion of the parietal bone was not present on the skull at autopsy. Therefore, the “skull bevel” the FPP thought it saw in the photographs could not have been located on the coronal suture above pterion because no bone remained to evidence the suture. Taken in concert with the findings of Mantik, Angel, Boswell, Finck, Canning, and McDonnel that frontal bone was absent at that point, the coronal suture could not have been visualized on the lateral X-ray because it was not present. HSCA consulting radiologist Dr. David Davis seemed to confirm this when he reported “absence [of bone] present to a point approximately equivalent to where the coronal suture on the right side should be[76] [emphasis added]. Yet it was Davis who apparently wrongly confined the skull defect to the right parietal in the first place!

                      It follows that if the FPP genuinely believed that both the skull photograph and Triangular fragment represented exit points, then there must have been at least two separate exit points in the forward part of JFK’s head: one on the Triangular fragment, and one on the skull itself. This is exactly what Larry Angel reported to the FPP and the FPP disingenuously disregarded. Ballistically speaking, this does not automatically mean that two separate bullets exited the front part of the head; it could be that one bullet fractured, then diverged created two exit points.

                      If the FPP genuinely believed that the Harper fragment evidenced a bullet’s exit point and if Angel was correct that the fragment originated from the top rear of the skull as all the evidence indicates, then another bullet exited at that point. Therefore, under an honest interpretation of the evidence, if the FPP could not stuff the “three exits” into one common, forwardly-located outshoot, then they would have to admit the evidence showed at least one frontal exit point and one rearward exit point. That would mean conspiracy (see Figure H-15).

                      Figure H-15. Under the FPP scenario, the possibility exists that a bullet exited the top rear third of Kennedy’s skull.[77]

                      The FPP claimed to have stuffed both the Harper and Triangular skull fragments where they knew they did not, and could not, fit. Why? Perhaps, the FPP grasped the implications of the evidence it gathered. Whatever the motive, the result of the their deception, which I believe was intentional, is clear; the FPP dishonestly and artificially simplified a complex and potentially momentous set of data to obfuscate the whisper of conspiracy.

                      In the final analysis, the FPP endorsed a Report that misrepresented the medical evidence and Michael Baden (at a minimum) had every reason to know it.

                      The HSCA sought to answer the question “was John Kennedy assassinated as the result of a conspiracy?” The answer rests today, as it did in the mid-1970s, on an accurate, forthright, honest review and interpretation of the extant medical evidence. That is not what we got from the HSCA Forensic Pathology Panel.
                      It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                      ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                      Comment


                      • Boswell prepared a diagram of the backside of JFK, marking a bullet’s entrance well below either “C-7” or “T-1.” Though the Warren Commission did not print it, an identical version of Boswell’s diagram turned up which was signed as “verified” by the President’s personal physician, George Burkley, who gave his own evidence for a lower wound. In the official death certificate, which Burkeley wrote on 11-23-64, the day before he saw and verified the low wound depicted on Boswell's face sheet, Burkeley wrote that, “A second wound occurred in the posterior back at about the level of the third thoracic vertebra.” A good match for Boswell’s sketch. Other credible witnesses corroborated a lower wound:

                        Secret Service agent Glenn Bennett was riding the follow up car. He was the first to document, in contemporaneous notes, Kennedy taking the back shot. He wrote, “"I looked at the back of the President. I heard another firecracker noise and saw that shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder." The Warren Commission accorded his observations “substantial weight,” writing, "Although [Bennett’s] formal statement was dated November 23, 1963, his notes indicate that he recorded what he saw and heard at 5:30 p.m., November 22, 1963, on the airplane en route back to Washington, prior to the autopsy, when it was not yet known that the President had been hit in the back.”
                        Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who climbed aboard the President's limousine after the shooting, described the back wound to Representative Boggs under oath, "I saw an opening in the back, about 6 inches below the neckline to the right-hand side of the spinal column."
                        John Ebersole, the morgue described the back wound in a recorded telephone conversation with David Mantik, MD, PhD in 1992, as, "to the right of T-4", the fourth thoracic vertebra - one vertebral space lower than Burkley's death certificate placed it.
                        The FBI agents who witnessed the autopsy described the wound in a formal report dictated on 11/26/63, saying, “Dr. Humes located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole which was below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle line of the spinal column." Moreover, after a 1977 interview with one of the FBI agents, Francis O’Neill, the HSCA interviewers reported, "O'Neill mentioned that he does not see how the bullets that entered below the shoulder in the back 'could have come out of the throat.'" In addition, O'Neill hand-sketched a 'profile' drawing of the 'back-throat' wound showing the back wound considerably lower than the throat wound. The other FBI witness, James Sibert, also drew a sketch of JFK’s ‘back-throat’ wound for the HSCA in which the entrance site on the back is considerably lower than the throat wound.
                        It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                        All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                        ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                        Comment


                        • Now let’s look at another of George’s witness (and I’m accused of avoiding issues….you couldn’t make it up.

                          Dr. Charles Crenshaw. He died in 2001 but in the early 90’s he published a book called JFK: Conspiracy Of Silence.

                          Firstly it needs pointing out that the 4 main Doctors attending to Kennedy at Parkland Hospital (Perry, Carrico, Jenkins and Baxter) all agreed with Dr. Carrico when he said:” nothing we observed contradicts the autopsy finding that the bullets were fired from above and behind by a high velocity bullet,

                          Crenshaw claimed that just before Kennedy died he saw: “two frontal-entry bullet wounds,” claiming that the wounds were later altered by someone to make it look a shot from behind. Even though the scene at Parkland was about as traumatic as can be imagined and even the the direction of the wounds were of no concern to the Parkland Doctors, Crenshaw, who was a junior resident at the time, who claimed that he looked at Kennedy in his coffin saying:”I looked at the neck wound again. I wanted to know and remember this for the rest of my life. And the rest of my life I will always know that he was shot from the front.” Perhaps he was worried that he might have forgotten seeing the dying President? Have you ever heard such nonsense? But it gets worse.

                          Interviewed by the FBI in 1992 he claimed that he supervised the placing of Kennedy’s body into the coffin and that he moved the President’s head before placing his fist next to the ‘large exit wound’ (which he first said was at the back and centre of Kennedy’s head) so that he could compare the size of the wound which he claimed was the size of his fist. What do we think the chances would be of the senior Doctors at Parkland Hospital allowing a junior resident to handle the President’s body in this way?

                          Why didn’t Crenshaw come forward immediately instead of waiting nearly 29 years to ‘remember’ all of this? You’ve probably guessed why. “I reasoned that anyone who would go as far as to eliminate the President of the United States would surely not hesitate to kill a Doctor.” Unsurprisingly conspiracy theorists lap up this kind of drivel.

                          Dr. Perry told the JAMA in 1992: “in 1963, Chuck Crenshaw was a junior resident and he absolutely did not participate in a meaningful way in the attempt to resuscitate the President……I do not remember even seeing him in the room.” He was definitely there though, as discovered by honest non-conspiracy researchers. Several people saw him. But sadly for old Chucky boy their testimony is fatal to him. Dr. McClelland was showing a training film on surgical techniques to students when Crenshaw told him that Kennedy was being brought in. He accompanied Crenshaw to Trauma Room One. By the time that they arrived, according to McClelland, Dr. Perry had already made the tracheotomy incision to Kennedy’s throat. Which meant that Crenshaw simply couldn’t have seen this alleged entry wound in the throat. When confronted with this fact in 1994 Crenshaw feebly said that McClelland must have looked away just as Perry made the incision allowing Crenshaw to see it for: “a fraction of a second.”

                          When asked about the extent of Crenshaw’s contribution to the attempts to save the President, Dr. Kenneth E. Salyer said:” Dr. Crenshaw participated to about the extent that I did. We were occupied in making sure an IV was going and hanging up a bottle of blood……That’s the reason I remembered him specifically because we were sort of working together on that.”

                          Yet Hans Christian Crenshaw massively exaggerated his contribution saying:” I removed the President’s shoes and right sock, and began cutting off his suit trousers……I made a small incision to copse the saphenous vein……I inserted a catheter toward the heart, then tied the space between the vessel and the catheter to prevent leakage.”

                          What did Dr. Perry say in 1992 after hearing of Crenshaw’s lies? This:” When I first heard about Crenshaw’s claims, I was considering a lawsuit, but after seeing Charles on TV one day, all my anger melted. It was so athletic to see him on TV saying this bogus stuff to reach out for his day in the sun and I ended up feeling sorry for him.”

                          Dr. Baxter said that when Crenshaw’s book came out he received amazed calls from the other Parkland staff. Not a single one supported Crenshaw’s claims.

                          Then just to cap it off Crenshaw claimed that he took a call while in the trauma room from LBJ who apparently had no issue with telling a junior resident this:” Dr. Crenshaw, I want a deathbed confession from the accused assassin. There’s a man in the operating room who will take the statement. I will expect full cooperation on this.” Crenshaw said that the mystery man in question was an Oliver Hardy lookalike with a pistol hanging from his pocket.

                          Apologies for going on chaps but…..it gets worse….if you can believe it possible. This comes from author Gus Russo in an email to John McAdams. “When Oliver Stone was in Dallas prepping for his movie JFK, a number of us were around as ‘technical advisors,’ which was a bit of a joke because Stone only listened to people with crazy conspiracy info. One night at the Stoneleigh Hotel….Stone ushered Gary Shaw (Crenshaw’s co-author) Robert Groden and Crenshaw into his room. I was not invited, but I later pressed Shaw for info in the lobby. He was the first to tell me that LBJ ordered Oswald killed. Later, Crenshaw came down, and after we happened to be in the Stoneleigh’s men’s room at the same time……It was there that he told me that Johnson had ordered the Parkland staff to ‘kill the son of a bitch. It was decided to ‘drown Oswald in his own blood,’ ie transfuse him until his lungs collapsed.”

                          Crenshaw then told conspiracy theorist Harrison Livingston to tone down what LBJ had told him when he produced his book.

                          Do we need further evidence that conspiracy theorists will believe absolutely anything?

                          Nice support witness George.
                          Regards

                          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                          Comment


                          • I don’t have the energy to discuss George’s or anyone else’s utter nonsense. The evidence is there and cannot be disputed except by conspiracy theorists. We could go on forever. Nothing will convince these gullible saps from swallowing conspiracist crap. You cannot reason with people who treat this subject like a religion. It’s sad and pathetic.

                            17 pathologists - wounds from the rear - game over.
                            Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 02-26-2023, 03:12 PM.
                            Regards

                            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
                              The actual spray of brain and bone fragments. Jackie didn't climb forward to retrieve part of the President's skull.

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                              Ah, so someone just painted the blood spray onto that frame of the Zapruder film? Probably the same person that forged the Oswald photo, and forged the autopsy x-rays and forged the autopsy photos and faked the Hidell ID, and forged Oswald’s handwriting, and faked the fingerprints, and changed the rifle from a Mauser to a mannlicher carcano and caused the Tippit witnesses to hallucinate, and forced Frazier, Randle, Jarman, Giverns and others to lie, and forced Oswald’s wife to lie and his brother to lie, and forced 17 pathologists to lie, and convince the Warren Commissioner’s and investigators to lie.

                              Easy enough.

                              Regards

                              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

                                Hi Abby,

                                I agree that there couldn't be a better place for a sniper than on the overpass but the problem would be that there were lots of spectators there. I haven't seen any theory regarding a sniper under the overpass. The other place would be the Records Building where the target would be going directly away. That is where a cartridge case was found years afterwards.

                                The hobos were at the rear of the carpark near the TSBD. There were many people on the overpass including the railway workers. Their experience can be viewed here:
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEq6...HelmerReenberg
                                I recall that previously you had trouble with one of my links. In case you have trouble again, the title of the YouTube video is " The railroad workers on the Triple Overpass (English Version)". These men stated that the smoke was under the trees in front of the picket fence on the grassy knoll.

                                There's a video on the Hobos ( Tramps and Arrests (English Version) ) here:
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfr...HelmerReenberg

                                and a video of witness interviews ( Witnesses on the Grassy Knoll, Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas (English Version) ) here:
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJCC...HelmerReenberg

                                Cheers, George

                                thanks george
                                i didnt know that there were spectators on the overpass.

                                Comment

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