Ripperologist 124, February 2012

[tji]

Hi Curious


Sorry

Thanks, I am glad you enjoyed it.

Jimi is more able to answer this question I think, but as he is probably lazing about doing nothing I will try and answer ;0)

There are a few things we would like to look at.

1. Was Mary Kelly a Jack the Ripper victim? well, for us the perfect answer would be no, as that could indicate that Joseph stepped in after seeing Jacob with Catherine Eddowes and that was the reason for no more Ripper killings, but as good as that sounds I think we have to say that Mary followed the escalation of the previous kills and so was a jtr killing.

2. Did he start off with the older women as they were easier more vulnerable victims, gaining confidence with each kill, before targeting his real prey?

3. Did he intend to kill the matriarchal women and Mary Kelly was off script because of Police presence on the streets leaving him with no option but to adapt his kills?

I think while we put forward it was possible for the killings to be matriarchal, the death of his mother a few month earlier being the stressor, it is still supposition, a way to try and learn why these victims were picked. The death of his mother a few month earlier being a stressor that could explain this.

Tracy

[curious]

I suppose you could be right curious but I struggle with the diminutive sizes I've read about. I guess we must keep in mind the poverty and depravity of the living conditions. I imagine some of these guys could be the lean wiry-strong types due to physical labor.

I'm sure it's a 21st century prejudice but I have a hard time believing Jack the Ripper was the size of my girlfriend...


Greg

Understandable. But a considerably younger man, accustomed to dealing with heavy carcasses all day long -- could he not easily have overpowered the women who were killed?

[GregBaron]

Wiry strong...

Would he not have worked with heavy carcasses? I suspect his upper body might have been muscular.

I suppose you could be right curious but I struggle with the diminutive sizes I've read about. I guess we must keep in mind the poverty and depravity of the living conditions. I imagine some of these guys could be the lean wiry-strong types due to physical labor.

I'm sure it's a 21st century prejudice but I have a hard time believing Jack the Ripper was the size of my girlfriend...


Greg

[curious]

I doubt Levy is broad shoulders at 5’3” and 125 lbs.

Greg

Would he not have worked with heavy carcasses? I suspect his upper body might have been muscular.

[GregBaron]

JI, JL, AK, JF, HH etc.

Hello Greg. I like your thesis about Sir Robert mixing cases together.

A definite possibility.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks Lynn. When you see the similarities between JI and JL and to a lesser extent Koz and even others down the lunatic road, it's remarkable. It seems your JI and JL share a trait of collecting stuff and never leaving a penny (sixpence) behind...not to mention knives, butchery, wandering, violence etc. Perhaps they teamed up?

There are some photos we haven't included, mainly Jacob's intake records into the asylum in 1888 located for us by Debs, while we have put a description of these into the article, none of it is word for word. Also there are some people who don't get the magazine who will wonder what it is all about.

I did have an interest in Hyam Hyams also but I think the new information found on him (was not the Hyams Hyams of Mitre Street and the asylum records found) casts doubt on him as a suspect.

As of yet we have found no new information given by his wife or children but here's hoping it is out there!

He was certainly in the middle of it!

Good stuff Tracy, looking forward to further developments...


Greg

[curious]

Hi Curious



Could that be my doing I am afraid?! I did hypothesis early on in my research of Caroline Solomons that maybe she was a gentile as we had trouble finding information about her before she met Joseph. We now know that it was highly likely she was Jewish and her first husband was likely Jewish.


We think he is


Tracy

Thanks, Tracy,
Perhaps it was indeed you!

Levy has been on my radar from very early on, most likely because of postings by you and Neil.

Glad to have that Jew/Gentile angle cleared up, even if it was not in the direction I had hoped.

Great job with the article.

P.S. I noted that you all tie the killings of older women into some sort of matriarchal murder. So, in your opinion, does that make Mary Kelly not killed by Levy?

[curious]

How can I get a copy of this issue? Can I order online or what?

RH

You might have luck emailing your request to contact@ripperologist.biz to see if anything can be done.

[lynn cates]

Levy

Hello TJ. Kudos to you both--well done!

Delighted to have a suspect who has violent on his chart. Sometimes we forget that this is a necessary prerequisite.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

admixture

Hello Greg. I like your thesis about Sir Robert mixing cases together.

A definite possibility.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Carnac

Hello Ken, Don, Maria and Chris. Thanks.

And if you don't like his humour, may an incontinent yak do piddly in your petunias.

Cheers.
LC

[robhouse]

How can I get a copy of this issue? Can I order online or what?

RH

[tji]

Hi Curious

I was under the impression that Levy was half Jew and half Gentile, which was not mentioned in the article that I recall, but which I'm sure the writers could tell us????

Could that be my doing I am afraid?! I did hypothesis early on in my research of Caroline Solomons that maybe she was a gentile as we had trouble finding information about her before she met Joseph. We now know that it was highly likely she was Jewish and her first husband was likely Jewish.


We think he is


Tracy

[tji]

Thanks again Greg - we did have some top notch researches on our side.

There are some photos we haven't included, mainly Jacob's intake records into the asylum in 1888 located for us by Debs, while we have put a description of these into the article, none of it is word for word. Also there are some people who don't get the magazine who will wonder what it is all about.

I did have an interest in Hyam Hyams also but I think the new information found on him (was not the Hyams Hyams of Mitre Street and the asylum records found) casts doubt on him as a suspect.

As of yet we have found no new information given by his wife or children but here's hoping it is out there!

He was certainly in the middle of it!


Tracy

[curious]

Hi all,

I read the Jacob Levy piece in #124 and it's very intriguing. Good work by all involved. It's especially nice to see original sources although they are difficult to read.

Anyway, I want to throw out some observations that hopefully will lead to interesting debate...


If you haven't read it I would bypass this post now as I may spoil the plot.....I warned you...


Levy, Koz and J Isenschmid all have amazingly similar diagnoses, all were schizophrenic and what could be said of one might easily apply to the other. Maybe that's why officials mixed things up...?

If this thesis is correct, Anderson is right…!

If you switch Koz to Levy, Swanson is also right and Levy did die in an asylum.

Police surveillance may have been of Levy….? On butcher’s row? Middlesex Street?

He was a butcher like JI and had the requisite skills…

Joseph Levy may have withheld as a witness and Lawende may have fabricated to protect…!

Does Levy fit Lawende's sailor man? I would say no.

Does Levy fit Mrs. Long’s description – I would say yes.

I doubt Levy is broad shoulders at 5’3” and 125 lbs.

Does he fit any of the Berner St. sightings? Not sure...

Could Levy be Astrakhan or Bethnal Green? – facially yes, pale and small -yes, doubt he could be as flashed up as Hutch contended though.

Middlesex St. fits right in the wheelhouse of a possible perp…and Ghoulston St. is on the way home isn’t it?

Syphilis, jail and a failed career are big time stressors...

Levy had a wife and kids...


All interesting starting points with many others as well...

Could the puzzle be falling into place?



Greg

Very interesting points, Greg.

I was under the impression that Levy was half Jew and half Gentile, which was not mentioned in the article that I recall, but which I'm sure the writers could tell us????

If true, would not tha situation likely be a huge stressor as he never fit anywhere and was always an outcast.

Yes, Jacob Levy is very, very interesting.

[GregBaron]

More Jacob...

Hi Greg

Thanks - we enjoyed researching it. Hopefully at some point we will transcribe the documents to the boards. If there is any specific part you want deciphering before that just shout up

Me and Jimi have thought Jacob a good suspect for a lot of years and hopefully the article will raise his profile in that way.

Paraphrasing Jimi here - Can we prove Jacob was Jack the Ripper.....no, but I think he can definitely be classed as a lot better suspect than some out there and does merit closer investigation. I am not sure if you have read the thread on the boards here Jacob the Ripper, there is some good input on there also.

Just one thing we left out of the article but may be of interest, Jacob's brother, Isaac *probably* lived at Wentworth buildings in 1888, next doorway to the one the apron was left in.

Tracy

Thanks a lot Tracy, y'all did a good job.

Are all the documents not transcribed in the article? I'd browse through the original and then go below to see what it said. If it all wasn't transcribed perhaps I should go back and take a look?

I may have read the Jacob the ripper threads in the past but I may revisit them.

I'm intrigued by the similarities with Koz, Hyams, JI and a few others...

I'd be interested to know if more information was culled from his wife. It says she mentioned his roaming around but do we know anymore from her? His kids? That could be interesting.

I need to get a map and figure out exactly where he lived. It's a perfect location really.

Thanks for the article and I'm going to go back to those threads...


Greg