Ripperologist 117

[mariab]

The Grave Maurice wrote:
I often tell friends who are going to Paris for the first time that they could spend their whole holiday just on the two islands and not run out of things to do. No one ever believes me, but I still think it's true.
Completely true, and yet the 2 islands are tiny. Another favorite spot of mine in Paris is the Notre Dame garden. I often go sit there and chill, when coming back on foot from the Archives Nationales or the Quartier Latin. It's a tiny garden, but it's very quiet and by the river, which completely does it for me. Incidentally, the OTHER side of the Notre Dame (where the entrance is) is packed with tourists, inline skaters, school classes, you name it. But thankfully hardly anyone from the crowd walks the couple steps to get inside the Notre Dame garden, leaving it pristine for the true Parisians. I can't help but think that people and particularly tourists most often tend to be sheep...

Fi Saint wrote:
The last time was in my camper van, following the footsteps of Van Gogh through France. which we managed to park for free for three days in a service road underneath a block of flats near the Eiffel tower!
Sounds like great fun, and I had no idea that one is allowed to camp inside Paris, by the Eiffel tower, no less!! Did you also do Holland in your camper van? I often camp (in a van – no camper – or in a generic small car) in the weekends in France when surfing. And yesterday I slept 2 hours in the car on our way to Fichtelberg, Sachsony, where we rode the powder and the halfpipe all day, and just got back to Berlin about an hour ago. I didn't sleep on the drive back, as I have about 5 coffees in me and I'm still all elated from riding all day.

Fi Saint wrote:
The only food I can remember eating on that trip to Paris was delicious bread and brie in the camper.
I hope not to dissapoint people by confessing that I'm not crazy about brie and the way it smells! In fact, I'll probably shock The good Michael to death (as he's a great cheese conoisseur and afficionado) if I confess that I wouldn't mind too much if I had to take a pledge to not ever eat cheese for the rest of my life. Call me unsophisticated.

Fi Saint wrote:
Perhaps you could keep an eye out for Marthe Lipska when you are in Paris, Maria. I was just reading that Jeanne Avril, the English dancer immortalized by Toulouse Lautrec, was in love with an English poet named Robert who eloped to England with a polish woman. Since I can't find Marthe Lipska in the UK census or marriage records, I am thinking this Robert might be Robert Sherard.
What is the significance?
Only this; if Mary Kelly really was part of this set, then it vastly increases our chances of finding her, since the movements of these 'fragrant vagrants' are extremely well documented. Robert Sherard seems like a good place to start..
I thought that Lipska was married to Sherard or something? Would you be interested in conducting this research yourself, Fiona, since you already are so well-acquainted with the details? It might produce some information about the elusive Mary Kelly. Also I'm sure that the results would interest Tom Wescott, considering his late article in Examiner 5.
I'm afraid biographical research is not my forte or my prime point of interest. In fact, I've hardly ever done it. I feel more at ease researching politics, financial documents, and criminal records. And the most success I've had as a researcher (in my own field of musicology) has been in reconstructing lost versions of documents from pieces and parts, or reconstructing a series of events from incomplete documents.
By the by, I should perhaps mention that the finest specialist in biographical researcher in Ripperology is Neal Shelden.

[Fi Saint]

sheer luck, Maurice. I'm am as stupid as the next person, if not more so. In fact, I wasn't even driving. I will definitely eat at the Orsay next time, tho. When that will be i have no idea; am very jealous of Maria having a Paris pied a terre.

Perhaps you could keep an eye out for Marthe Lipska when you are in Paris, Maria. I was just reading that Jeanne Avril, the English dancer immortalized by Toulouse Lautrec, was in love with an English poet named Robert who eloped to England with a polish woman. Since I can't find Marthe Lipska in the UK census or marriage records, I am thinking this Robert might be Robert Sherard.

What is the significance?

Only this; if Mary Kelly really was part of this set, then it vastly increases our chances of finding her, since the movements of these 'fragrant vagrants' are extremely well documented. Robert Sherard seems like a good place to start..

Fi

[The Grave Maurice]

Fi,

Aren't you clever. If I could think of a way to get a camper across the pond easily, I might try that myself.

Maria,

I often tell friends who are going to Paris for the first time that they could spend their whole holiday just on the two islands and not run out of things to do. No one ever believes me, but I still think it's true.

[Fi Saint]

Maria, unfortunately I have only made brief visits to the Orsay. The last time was in my camper van, following the footsteps of Van Gogh through France.

Maurice: the only food I can remember eating on that trip to Paris was delicious bread and brie in the camper - which we managed to park for free for three days in a service road underneath a block of flats near the Eiffel tower!

Fi

[mariab]

To The grave Maurice:
Never have I eaten at the Musée d'Orsay, but there's a tiny little restaurant on île Saint Louis which is inexpensive and has yummy stuff. It's nice for sitting outside. Another one of my favorites in the same neighborhood is Ô fil de l'ô, a stationary (in this instance spelled right with an “a“!) boat restaurant (peniche) opposite the Notre Dame garden, on the rive gauche (i.e., the left bank of the river Seine). The food is typical French and the cook perhaps not the best, plus it's expensive, BUT I love sitting outside on the ship deck. They serve white wine mixed with essence of lilac, which tastes a bit like shampoo but looks very “old Paris“. It's real fun to get a bit tipsy, as the boat really turns and moves this way and that, following the mouvement of the passing boats. And if one goes to the bathroom downstairs, the water out of the window is over the top of one's ears (at least for me, as I'm only 5.4´´).
This is NOT a touristy place, this is a bar frequented by real Parisians. (And I honestly hope not to have spoiled this by posting the info here.)

[The Grave Maurice]

Aside: Do you guys ever have lunch at the restaurant in the Orsay? I avoided it for years thinking it might be too up-scale for my wallet. Turns out the decor is stunning, the grub and service excellent, and the prices about the same as at any decent place in the City of Light.

[mariab]

Hello Fiona (is it Fiona?),
you really know the Musée d'Orsay in and out! I'm impressed. I'm better acquainted with the Louvre. Have you ever lived in Paris over a long period?
Thank you for the information. I'll definitely read Tom's article, but I think I should read the Rip back issues and Rip 117 first. Kinda trying to keep some kind of order here.
I'm about to finally have dinner with some snowboard DVDs, then hope to tuck in for a little while, but time is tight. (I really need to shower before it's time o go, possibly even wash my hair. What a drag. But I'm sure I'll sleep in the car. We won't get there before 10.00 a.m. anyway, and I love riding a bus at night, especially with the deep snow outside and all.)
Have a very nice weekend.

[Fi Saint]

Hi Maria,

The image is under copywrite, so see link below. If you want to see it in the flesh, it's near the dimly lit corner with the Odillon Redon pastels are, first floor i think, beyond the Van Goghs. The picture doesn't show the long, double crossed blade unfortunately, only the handle.

Description:

Paul Gauguin
Poignard
vers 1890
bois, décor sculpté et peint, métal
L. 0.575
musée d'Orsay, Paris, France
©photo musée d'Orsay / rmn


http://www.musee-orsay.fr/en/info/gd...tx_damzoom_pi1[zoom]=fromplan&tx_damzoom_pi1[xmlId]=019200&tx_damzoom_pi1[back]=en/tools/plan-salle.html%3Fzsz%3D9


I have read Tom's article, which is how I heard about Ernest Dowson in the first place. It's fascinating, you should read it before you read mine.

Happy snowboarding!
Fi

[mariab]

Fi Saint wrote:
No, I didn't know Ernest Dowson knew Mary Kelly either. How sure are we of this?
It looks like Tom Wescott has written an article which discusses this possibility in the current Examiner issue #5. You can subcribe to Examiner for $9 per year if you cklick on Casebook Examiner on the menu to your left. I haven't read the current issue, it's on my list, but long after your own article!

Fi Saint wrote:
Does anyone have the Martin Fido article from Ripperana #29?
I'm sure some people on casebook might have, so feel free to keep asking around.

Fi Saint wrote:
His {Gauguin‘s }knife is on display in the Musée d'Orsay by the way.
I only know about Gauguin's Tahitian period. What do you mean “his knife“?! I've never noticed it at the Musée d'Orsay, but I most often go to the Louvre. (Which is a tiny walk from my rented apartment, when I'm in Paris.)

Fi Saint:
Research Mary Kelly in Paris? Yes! But where? I somehow don't think Madame Zambaca would have kept lists of her art students, but you never know...
I'll research other people in criminal records, but keep an eye out for her too, in a very off-off chance that she ever had any dealings with the police when in Paris.

Fi Saint wrote:
Thanks for your interest, Maria, and enjoy the snow.
I'll definitely read your Rip article around Xmas. As for the snow, very happily in the middle of tonight (around 4.00 a.m.) we're leaving by minibus with my friends and some customers from their shop to go ride Fichtelberg, which is a small resort with a bit of snowpark infrastucture (including a halfpipe) by the Tcheck boarder, not too far from Karlsbad/Dresden. So tonight I'll sleep in the car, if at all. We'll ride all day tomorrow until dark, then drive back to Berlin. I wish we could stay a couple days, but dream on.

[lynn cates]

email

Hello Fiona. I just saw this. If your PM is not working, I am at lcates@hotmail.com

Just send me your email and I can send you those signatures.

Cheers.
LC

[Fi Saint]

Well i hope it doesn't disappoint - it does cover much old ground, but hopefully some new. No, I didn't know Ernest Dowson knew Mary Kelly either. How sure are we of this? Does anyone have the Martin Fido article from Ripperana # 29?

Have you had time to look at the Gauguin article in Rip 114? The artist Paul Gauguin seems to have known about the Ripper murders as they happened. Spooky. I think he painted Mary Kelly in his 1888 canvas 'Human Misery'. His knife is on display in the Musée d'Orsay by the way.

Research Mary Kelly in Paris? Yes! But where? I somehow don't think Madame Zambaca would have kept lists of her art students, but you never know...

I have now tried to contact Lynn Cates through the Ripper Casebook webmaster, by the way.

Thanks for your interest, Maria, and enjoy the snow.

Fi

[mariab]

Thank you so much for all the information, Fi Saint. I knew Ernest Dowson as the author to the verses “Gone with the wind“, but had no clue about pedophile tendencies and the possible connection to Mary Kelly. Maybe I should try researching Mary Kelly in Paris?! I'm already researching the possibility of copies of her scene photographs being in Lyon.
I'm afraid it'll take a few days before I manage to read Ripperologist 117, as I'm still stuck with several articles from back issues, plus a conference proposal and a French article to conclude, plus I'm getting the weekend off. But I hope to get to Rip 117 around Xmas or just after Xmas. I'm very-very interested in reading your own article.

[Fi Saint]

Thanks for that, Mariab. Wilde's young friend Sherard married a Polish woman named Marthe Lipska in 1887. He had already dropped his family name of Kennedy, so who knows, maybe he went by his wife's name in 1888 ... the male version of which would be Lipski. !!

Ernest Dowson, the poet mentioned in Tom's article as having possibly known Mary Kelly, is interesting, if repulsive. Tom, I would love to discuss this topic with you; thanks for putting me onto this character Dowson. I've been digging..

In March 1888 he suddenly gave up studies at Oxford, nobody really knows why. The family cash-cow, a dry dock business that had been in the family several generations, was going to pot and at the end of Nov 1888 Dowson took over management of it with his father (although neither knew anything about dry docks and just smoked a lot of cigarettes and wrote a few letters). At this time, Ernest Dowson moved into the house of his foreman at Narrow Street, Bridge Dock in Limehouse (facing the Thames in the heart of Docklands).

Dowson would go carousing the West End and return in the early hours on the workmens' train. He frequented the music halls and theatres, and in the autumn of 1888 met a group of medical students from Bart's at the Bedford music hall in Camden, frequented by Sickert, where they 'entertained' the female performers, including a troupe of female acrobats.

From his letters, he also appears to have had paedophile tendencies at this time (Nov 1888) grooming a girl as young as six, and falling in love with an eleven year old who inspired his most famous poem. He also appears to have been an anti-Semite, and wrote drolly in a letter of early 1889 'I hate the Jews and all their works, I can't even stand Daniel Deronda'.

He was a translator with the Lutetian Society, which was set up in order to provide 'undiluted' translations of Emile Zola.

His father Alfred was a cultured, well-connected man; he voluntarily taught "the children of thieves and prostitutes" basic literacy at 396 Commercial Road. (This is the at the eastern end, not far from the Bridge Dock premises 0 does anyone know anything about this address???).

On 22 Feb 1889, the day following Richard Pigott's unmasking as the author of the Parnell letter to The Times, Dowson wrote to his friend Arthur Moore:
"Good old Piggot! Cat out of the bag at last. Poor Dicky Webster, what a notch! Vive la Bagatelle!" (Sir Richard Webster was QC, for The Times)

He spent time at Dieppe and Pont-Aven and worked on The Graphic, as did the artist Frank Brangwyn (see my article.. !)


Here is his description of the premises at Bridge Dock, seen through the eyes of the fictional character Rainham, from 'A Comedy of Masks', 1893:

"Rainham had a set of rooms in the house of his foreman - an eighteenth century house, full of carved oak mantles and curious alcoves, a ramshackle structure within the dock gates, with a quaint balcony staircase, like the approach to a Swiss chalet, leading down into the yard. In London these apartments were his sole domicile; though to his friends, none of whom lived nearer to him than Bloomsbury, this seemed a piece of conduct too flagrantly eccentric ... in the face of his constant lengthy absences, during the whole of the winter, when he handed the reins of government to his manager, and took care of his diseased lung in a warmer climate."

And here is Arthur Symons (who introduced Symbolist poetry to England) on Dowson:

"Sober, he was the most gentle, in manner the most gentlemanly of men; unselfish to a fault, to the extent of weakness, a delightful companion, charm itself. Under the influence of drink, he became almost literally insane, certainly quite irresponsible. He fell into furious and unreasoning passions; a vocabulary unknown to him at other times sprung up like a whirlwind; he seemed always about to commit some absurd act of violence.... His father, when he died, left him in possession of an old dock, where for a time he lived in a mouldering house, in that squalid part of the East End which he came to know so well, and to feel strangely at home in. He drank the poisonous liquors of the pot-houses which swarm about the docks; he drifted about in whatever company came his way... at Dieppe where I saw so much of him one summer, he discovered strange, squalid haunts about the harbour, where he made friends with amazing innkeepers and got into rows with the fishermen
who came in to drink after midnight."


Ernest Dowson penned the famous lines "gone with the wind", "the days of wine and roses" - and "absinthe makes the tarts grow fonder".

Cheers,
Fi

[mariab]

To Fi Saint:
It looks like your PM is not activated yet. It does get activated after a new member has posted a number of times. (After 20 or 25 posts, I think?) Perhaps you can email Lynn Cates your email address? To do this you need to click on his name over his messages and choose “send email to Lynn Cates“ from the menu.
I was very impressed by all the information you brought about Oscar Wilde's companion in Paris, and I can't wait to read your article in Rip 117.

[Fi Saint]

Lynn,

You asked me to send a pm, but I have no idea how to do this. Apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

Regards,
Fi