Ripperologist 111

[jason_c]

Macnaghten was merely pointing out 3 men who he felt were better suspects than Cutbush.

He wasnt naming Jack. This must be understood.

Therefore I suspect he was looking for any suspect with what he deemed better 'credentials'.

If Le Grand was to his hand then its possible he could have been included by Sir Melville.

Either way, the 3 he listed is not neccesarily an indication of his, or the departments, belief of guilt.

If Macnaghten listed Tom, Deacon, Harry then Messers Fido and Howells (and whoever lists those 3 as suspects) would have provided us with entirely different books.

Their research has a basis with Mac.

Monty

Monty

You are correct in that he wasnt naming the murderer. However, these were more than names out of a hat. Druitt was his favoured suspect as far as we can tell. And Kosminski the only suspect who had any sort of proof against him.

[DVV]

I posted somewhere recently my thoughts that Ostrog might have been confused with another suspect, Charles Le Grand. Both were thieves, both used the alias 'Grant', but Le Grand was a far more violent, evil character, who had a collection of knives, abused prostitutes, etc. Both Ostrog and Le Grand were wrongly called Belgians at times.
Tom Wescott

I doubt it, Tom.
Ostrog was too well known to the police to have been confused with anyone.
Macnaghten quickly portrayed him as a dangerous maniac to make his memo more glamour, when in fact he knew nothing whatsoever that could link poor Ostrog to the Ripper murders.

"Unquestionably a homicidal maniac"..."habitually cruel to women"...and of course, he had "surgical knives"...
A fourth Macnaghten suspect would have been furnished with a gladstone bag.

Amitiés,
David

[Hunter]

A lot of suspects in the mystery have in my mind already been eliminated but for some reason some people will not accept this and choose to keep wanting to argue there viablity.

Now ain't that the pot calling the kettle black.

[Jonathan H]

You mean me?

That I am being boring, petty, backbiting, and anachronistic?

I have found the posters to be polite and civil and thoughtful and so I disagree with all of that -- except the tedium part. If you find it boring that's you're right but if other posters want to debate some issues who are you to shut us down?

And right after I send a post saying that for 'some people' if this whole debate should seriously and plausibly rotate back towards the so-called discredited 'Drowned Doctor' then panic will set in ...

[Trevor Marriott]

A lot of suspects in the mystery have in my mind already been eliminated but for some reason some people will not accept this and choose to keep wanting to argue there viablity.

Come on now guys and gals accept these things and stop all this repetetive petty arguing and bickering and back biting it really is getting boring now.

[doris]

Yes, by Philip Sugden in 1997. That's what the discussion is about..I'm suggesting that Ostrog was confused with another suspect and am being completely ignored for my efforts. DVV and Jason C are pointing out that Ostrog's place in the Macnaghten 3 gives the lie to the whole document. Jonathan is arguing that...well, I'm not exactly sure what he's arguing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Aha, thanks Tom.

doris

[Scott Nelson]

Welcome back.

[Monty]

Macnaghten was merely pointing out 3 men who he felt were better suspects than Cutbush.

He wasnt naming Jack. This must be understood.

Therefore I suspect he was looking for any suspect with what he deemed better 'credentials'.

If Le Grand was to his hand then its possible he could have been included by Sir Melville.

Either way, the 3 he listed is not neccesarily an indication of his, or the departments, belief of guilt.

If Macnaghten listed Tom, Deacon, Harry then Messers Fido and Howells (and whoever lists those 3 as suspects) would have provided us with entirely different books.

Their research has a basis with Mac.

Monty

[Jonathan H]

I am arguing that Macnaghten knew that Ostrog was not the Ripper and that is why he put him on the list. Somebody whom he could practically guarantee would not sue for libel if the Home Sec. said in the Commons 'a Russian doctor'.

[Natalie Severn]

Yes, by Philip Sugden in 1997. That's what the discussion is about..I'm suggesting that Ostrog was confused with another suspect and am being completely ignored for my efforts. DVV and Jason C are pointing out that Ostrog's place in the Macnaghten 3 gives the lie to the whole document. Jonathan is arguing that...well, I'm not exactly sure what he's arguing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,
I am very interested in what you are saying here about the aliases of Ostrog and Le Grand possibly having been juxtaposed in some strange way?
However as this is a completely new concept to me ,I would need more information before joining such a discussion.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hasn't Ostrog been proved to have been locked up in France at the time of the murders?

Yes, by Philip Sugden in 1997. That's what the discussion is about..I'm suggesting that Ostrog was confused with another suspect and am being completely ignored for my efforts. DVV and Jason C are pointing out that Ostrog's place in the Macnaghten 3 gives the lie to the whole document. Jonathan is arguing that...well, I'm not exactly sure what he's arguing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[doris]

Hasn't Ostrog been proved to have been locked up in France at the time of the murders?

doris

[Jonathan H]

You're missing the overall.

Druitt and Kosminski were accused of being murderers, in the former's case by his family and in the latter's case we don't know -- perhaps his family too. So far as we know nothing like that is true of Ostrog.

[jason_c]

Absolutely right!

What is Ostrog doing on this list when he is not even a murderer, except I suppose when he tried to dangerously throw himself away attacked to a cop.

.

Neither was Kosminski or Druitt.

Thankfully police dont simply investigate convicted murderers during a murder investigation.

[Tom_Wescott]

What is Ostrog doing on this list when he is not even a murderer, except I suppose when he tried to dangerously throw himself away attacked to a cop.

That's assuming he did this and wasn't being confused for Le Grand, who attempted to throw a policeman under a train.


Yours truly,

Tom Wescott