Mary Jane Kelly and the victims of Jack the Ripper

[MrBarnett]

Hi there,

I've just downloaded and read the kindle book. Brilliant piece of work re Morganstern, Felix and Boeku.

I have a particular interest in Breezers Hill because my grandmother was born at no. 3 in 1896.

I have looked up the census returns as part of my family research and was rather intrigued by the entry for Ellen Fallon, the adopted child of the McCarthys living at no. 1, to all appearances a brothel, in 1891. She would have been around 2 years old in 1885.

Regards,

MrB

[Tom_Wescott]

I didn't know Shemp worked with Joseph Lialter.

Yes, my earlier records show a 'Curly' working with Lialter. Shemp must have replaced him in the position.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Scott Nelson]

I didn't know Shemp worked with Joseph Lialter.

[Lechmere]

I was just going through some of my files and I noticed that a David Felix was the licenced dealer of Cow-Houses located in 37 Hanbury Street and 15 Tilley Street, in 1893 (the date of this report).
He still had these premises in 1897.
A Cow House is where cows would be kept and milked.
There had been cows kept on Hanbury Street and specifically no. 37 for some time. No. 37 was on the north side quite near to Brick Lane.
We are told that Adrianus and Johannes Morgenstern called themselves Felix as it was a name common among skinner dressers in the area they lived (Portree Street, Bromley, Poplar). There are still quite a few original houses in Portree Street. I know that area reasonably well.
It is on the same page as slaughter houses as they all had to be inspected. As can be seen the slaughter houses are concentrated on ‘Butcher’s Row’.

[Wickerman]

.... personally I don't think Kelly's London stories were ever unlikely to be true; non of it (except arguably the trip to France perhaps) is implausible.

Another spin-off from Neal's research could be to see if any family link exists between the McCarthy's of Breezers Hill and those at Millers Court.
We have long wondered if Mary Kelly knew John McCarthy on more familiar grounds (excessively overdue rent?) than was claimed by McCarthy himself. And remember, his brother (also John) was born in France.

For myself I am simply grateful for this step forward in understanding Kelly's life - and I am hopeful that further discoveries will come from the research.

There are several avenue's already mentioned to pursue just as spin-off's from this one book. I'm glad to see a light has been lit under this apparently stalled topic.

[lynn cates]

not imaginary

Hello Phil. Thanks.

Looks like we are at loggerheads.

I think I understand what you mean. Still, the story has not changed over 125 years--all that is new is that the superb research shows these people were real not imaginary.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

So let me take your example and invert it chronologically. Let's say that the "Marginalia" were found and skeptics proclaimed, "Kosminski? Who is this lad? How do we know the story about his ID is true?" Then, Professor Fido searches the records and finds Aaron Kosminski. Does that make the Marginalia true?

You have taken what I said out of context.

i explained myself fully and i think you know very well what I mean.

Phil

[lynn cates]

uncareful

Hello Sally. Thanks.

Yes, an uncareful phrase. How about, "helps one see how . . ."?

(By the way, that helps make my point.)

Cheers.
LC

[Sally]

How was it any less possible before?

[lynn cates]

Hutch

Hello Jon. Good thinking. The Shelden's research may make it possible for Hutchinson to have know "MJK" as long as he had stated.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thought experiment

Hello Phil. Thanks.

"Same as if some evidence emerged to confirm that Swanson's marginalia was broadly correct."

To preserve symmetry, the evidence would be along the lines of "Kosminski actually existed." Of course, we already know that.

So let me take your example and invert it chronologically. Let's say that the "Marginalia" were found and skeptics proclaimed, "Kosminski? Who is this lad? How do we know the story about his ID is true?" Then, Professor Fido searches the records and finds Aaron Kosminski. Does that make the Marginalia true?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

You could always download Amazon's free Kindle app to your pc Ally...

All the best

Dave

[Ally]

Unfortunately, I bought a Nook instead of a Kindle, a decision I am beginning to regret. My mom however has a Kindle so I am going to borrow it for a week when I go down to Miami next week. Congrats Neal on your new book!

[Wickerman]

One other coincidence that may or may not have some relevance is that the McCarthy's (Mrs Carthy?) who took over the address at 1 Breezers Hill, Pennington St. sometime in 1888, replaced the Maywood's.
Stephen Maywood was a horse dealer with strong connections to Romford.

George Hutchinson said he had known Mary Kelly for about three years - did they know each other in Pennington Street?

[Phil H]

How so? Before they were authenticated, what did we take them to be?

The point is, we had no idea about them, for all the information they might have known, they were untraceable, the testimony that has survived from them untestable.

Now we know that they existed we can also see that the idea of a time in a West End brothel is a real possibility.

if you cannot see the point, I give up.

For me, this is a real advance.

Same as if some evidence emerged to confirm that Swanson's marginalia was broadly correct - there was a "secret" identification, at the Seaside Home, Kosminski was involved.

Would that not reduce the room for debate somewhat, make us look at what else Swanson and Anderson says afresh and with greater confidence, and vindicate Swanson from some of his detractors. I see the Sheldens efforts as in the same vein and of the same magnitude.

Phil