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  • #31
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

    yeah ive told him he should or one on the torsos
    Well, if nothing else, it wouldn't be controversial....
    Thems the Vagaries.....

    Comment


    • #32
      I’m reading The Axeman Of New Orleans by Miriam C. Davis at the moment and it’s an excellent read so far. It’s an intriguing case which I know very little about (I seem to recall reading about it in a true crime magazine many moons ago) For me the weird thing is how many victims the killer left alive as potential witnesses. A fair bit of poor (and also corrupt) policing went on at that time (1910-20ish) and some believe that they were committed by Black Hand gang members but Davis appears to be dispelling this as a myth? The victims were Italian Grocers with no known enemies but the police were desperately trying to pin the murder on anyone. A previous book named a suspect which it seems that Davis is dismissing (although I haven’t read that part yet.) From what I’ve read so far and from reading a few opinions of people who appear to know about the case I’d suggest that this might be the book on the case.
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes



      “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

      “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
        I’m reading The Axeman Of New Orleans by Miriam C. Davis at the moment and it’s an excellent read so far. It’s an intriguing case which I know very little about (I seem to recall reading about it in a true crime magazine many moons ago) For me the weird thing is how many victims the killer left alive as potential witnesses. A fair bit of poor (and also corrupt) policing went on at that time (1910-20ish) and some believe that they were committed by Black Hand gang members but Davis appears to be dispelling this as a myth? The victims were Italian Grocers with no known enemies but the police were desperately trying to pin the murder on anyone. A previous book named a suspect which it seems that Davis is dismissing (although I haven’t read that part yet.) From what I’ve read so far and from reading a few opinions of people who appear to know about the case I’d suggest that this might be the book on the case.
        another bizarre one. one of the weirder things about this one was that witnesses pretty much all describe a large man, yet police were ruling out potential suspects because they felt they were to big to fit the through the holes the killer cut through the doors!?!

        do you know if the maggios were the only victims killed with a razor? i think they were and if so were probably killed by his brother andrew who owned the razor, and these might not be related to the rest. just a weird coincidence they were italian and it was so close in time to the rest.

        but i do think whoever it was ..definitely connected to the italian community there.

        i beleive the letter more than likely authentic.
        Last edited by Abby Normal; 04-20-2021, 01:41 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

          another bizarre one. one of the weirder things about this one was that witnesses pretty much all describe a large man, yet police were ruling out potential suspects because they felt they were to big to fit the through the holes the killer cut through the doors!?!

          do you know if the maggios were the only victims killed with a razor? i think they were and if so were probably killed by his brother andrew who owned the razor, and these might not be related to the rest. just a weird coincidence they were italian and it was so close in time to the rest.

          but i do think whoever it was ..definitely connected to the italian community there.

          i beleive the letter more than likely authentic.
          Davis believes that the letter was written by a man called Joseph John Davila who stood to profit by the letter. He was a musician with his own music publishing company who claimed that the letter ‘inspired’ him to write a song called “The Mysterious Axman’s Jazz (Don’t Scare Me, Papa.)

          I think the Maggio’s were the only ones where a razor was involved along with an axe. When a bloodied razor was found one of Andrew’s employees at his barber shop, Esteban Torres, said that he’d seen him take a razor home to be honed but when 3 razors were found in Andrew’s room Torres said that one of them looked like the one he’d seen him take home and so it couldn’t have been used in the murder.

          I agree though Abby that this surely had to have some connection to the Italian community. And Grocer’s in particular?

          There was even a chalked message but it wasn’t recorded with any reliability so the content is vague.

          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes



          “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

          “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

            Davis believes that the letter was written by a man called Joseph John Davila who stood to profit by the letter. He was a musician with his own music publishing company who claimed that the letter ‘inspired’ him to write a song called “The Mysterious Axman’s Jazz (Don’t Scare Me, Papa.)

            I think the Maggio’s were the only ones where a razor was involved along with an axe. When a bloodied razor was found one of Andrew’s employees at his barber shop, Esteban Torres, said that he’d seen him take a razor home to be honed but when 3 razors were found in Andrew’s room Torres said that one of them looked like the one he’d seen him take home and so it couldn’t have been used in the murder.

            I agree though Abby that this surely had to have some connection to the Italian community. And Grocer’s in particular?

            There was even a chalked message but it wasn’t recorded with any reliability so the content is vague.
            hi herlock
            does the author davis have a preferred suspect?

            im struck by how similar in tone the letter is with other authentic letters from serial killers... zodiac, son of sam, btk. with the taunting of police and supernatural references. and it being so early in sk history how would a hoaxer know what a real serial killer says when he writes a letter.
            Last edited by Abby Normal; 04-20-2021, 05:53 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

              hi herlock
              does the author davis have a preferred suspect?

              im struck by how similar in tone the letter is with other authentic letters from serial killers... zodiac, son of sam, btk. with the taunting of police and supernatural references. and it being so early in sk history how would a hoaxer know what a real serial killer says when he writes a letter.
              Hi Abby,

              She hasn’t mentioned a suspect so far but I still have around 40 pages to go. I’ll finish the book in the next 2 or 3 hours.
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes



              “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

              “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                hi herlock
                does the author davis have a preferred suspect?

                im struck by how similar in tone the letter is with other authentic letters from serial killers... zodiac, son of sam, btk. with the taunting of police and supernatural references. and it being so early in sk history how would a hoaxer know what a real serial killer says when he writes a letter.
                No suspect Abby but I’d recommend this to anyone looking for a book on the case. She dispels a few myths but settles for telling the story of the murders and those involved. There’s certainly some question over some ax to whether they were by the same hand though. In previous books victims have been named that probably didn’t even exist as no record of them can be found. Shades of Fairy Fay? There was a later possible victim called Joseph Speo who also had his throat cut btw Abby. It’s an intriguing case but I’m wondering if it will ever be solved? She only mentions one ‘suspect’ and that’s Joseph Mumfre but she proves by dates (he spent time in prison) that he couldn’t have been the Axeman. What’s surprising to me though Abby is the lack of suspects. It’s appears to be Mumfre or the Black Hand gang. I think Mumfre can be dismissed and the BH gang doesn’t seem convincing to me.

                Good book though
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes



                “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

                “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                  No suspect Abby but I’d recommend this to anyone looking for a book on the case. She dispels a few myths but settles for telling the story of the murders and those involved. There’s certainly some question over some ax to whether they were by the same hand though. In previous books victims have been named that probably didn’t even exist as no record of them can be found. Shades of Fairy Fay? There was a later possible victim called Joseph Speo who also had his throat cut btw Abby. It’s an intriguing case but I’m wondering if it will ever be solved? She only mentions one ‘suspect’ and that’s Joseph Mumfre but she proves by dates (he spent time in prison) that he couldn’t have been the Axeman. What’s surprising to me though Abby is the lack of suspects. It’s appears to be Mumfre or the Black Hand gang. I think Mumfre can be dismissed and the BH gang doesn’t seem convincing to me.

                  Good book though
                  thanks herlock. im still struck by the fact the first murders involved a razor, which was actually cause of death, a person close to the victims has razors is also a police suspect and is actually arrested. and then surprise surprise the rest of the murders no razor is used.
                  think about it. on my limited knowledge of the case, i would say andrew maggio looks pretty good.
                  he has no alibi and is conveniently passed out cold, which also gives him an excuse to not hear the violence that happened right next door.
                  hed be my number one suspect.
                  do we have any idea if he was a large man?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                    thanks herlock. im still struck by the fact the first murders involved a razor, which was actually cause of death, a person close to the victims has razors is also a police suspect and is actually arrested. and then surprise surprise the rest of the murders no razor is used.
                    think about it. on my limited knowledge of the case, i would say andrew maggio looks pretty good.
                    he has no alibi and is conveniently passed out cold, which also gives him an excuse to not hear the violence that happened right next door.
                    hed be my number one suspect.
                    do we have any idea if he was a large man?
                    There’s no mention of his size Abby but his behaviour was certainly suspicious. He hears noises coming from the next room where the murder is taking place and yet all that he does is rap on the wall and then leave the house to tell his brother about his suspicion. It was cowardly at the least. What’s also strange though is that an axe was also used that had been found on the property by the killer. Andrew had been drinking though and was suffering from some kind of depression because he was trying to avoid being called into the army. They also found a shirt of his which was stained but the technology of the day defeated them. He said that it was wine.

                    Regards

                    Sir Herlock Sholmes



                    “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

                    “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                      There’s no mention of his size Abby but his behaviour was certainly suspicious. He hears noises coming from the next room where the murder is taking place and yet all that he does is rap on the wall and then leave the house to tell his brother about his suspicion. It was cowardly at the least. What’s also strange though is that an axe was also used that had been found on the property by the killer. Andrew had been drinking though and was suffering from some kind of depression because he was trying to avoid being called into the army. They also found a shirt of his which was stained but the technology of the day defeated them. He said that it was wine.
                      yeah right and i keep going back to the razor thing. he almost gets busted because of the razor and that weapon is never used again in any of the later murders.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                        yeah right and i keep going back to the razor thing. he almost gets busted because of the razor and that weapon is never used again in any of the later murders.
                        Unlike the ripper or zodiac cases there just aren’t any suspects for the Axeman so it’s difficult to envisage this one ever being solved (in the absence of a diary being found of course) Mumfre is the only name and he’s disproven. At the time the police were clutching at straws. Any local ne’er-do-well was nabbed. Preferably to them if he was black. Plus it does seem likely that there were copycats. It’s an interesting case Abby but I tend to suspect that it can go no further as it stands unless someone comes up with a viable suspect (or three)

                        Regards

                        Sir Herlock Sholmes



                        “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

                        “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I’ve just read HH Holmes by Adam Selzer and I can only give a to Wolf Vanderlinden for recommending this one to me. It’s brilliant. Holmes was a fascinating character. A compulsive liar and conman whose toll of victims remains unknown but was nowhere near the kind of totals alluded to over the years. He was constantly scheming and permanently the subject of some lawsuit or other. There’s no evidence that he ever killed for pleasure though. It was purely for gain or to remove an obstacle or obstacles. Tragically he even saw children in the same light. Selzer has unpicked the many myths that have grown up over the years around Holmes and presents us with the facts of the case . It’s only the second book I’ve ever read on the case but I can’t see me ever reading another as this one is surely as good as it gets.
                          Regards

                          Sir Herlock Sholmes



                          “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

                          “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                            I’ve just read HH Holmes by Adam Selzer and I can only give a to Wolf Vanderlinden for recommending this one to me. It’s brilliant. Holmes was a fascinating character. A compulsive liar and conman whose toll of victims remains unknown but was nowhere near the kind of totals alluded to over the years. He was constantly scheming and permanently the subject of some lawsuit or other. There’s no evidence that he ever killed for pleasure though. It was purely for gain or to remove an obstacle or obstacles. Tragically he even saw children in the same light. Selzer has unpicked the many myths that have grown up over the years around Holmes and presents us with the facts of the case . It’s only the second book I’ve ever read on the case but I can’t see me ever reading another as this one is surely as good as it gets.
                            i read devil and the white city. booooooring. i so wanted to like it and was disapointed because it got alot of hype and it should have been good.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              the best sk books ive read are sugden, zodiac by graysmith, monster of florence, ill be gone in tje dark about the gsk. rob houses on koz and fishs book get honorable mention.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                the best sk books ive read are sugden, zodiac by graysmith, monster of florence, ill be gone in tje dark about the gsk. rob houses on koz and fishs book get honorable mention.
                                I vaguely remember reading a book on The Monster Of Florence Abby but I can't recall which one. I seem to remember suspicion against someone from a well-to-do family although I could be mis-remembering?
                                Regards

                                Sir Herlock Sholmes



                                “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason – they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple about their wingnut delusions.”

                                “If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment.”

                                Comment

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