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Jack and the Thames Torso Murders: A New Ripper?

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  • Sam Flynn:You need more than one example in order to establish a pattern.

    But Abby was not after establishing a pattern, he was after pointing out very clear links!

    The similarities, such as they are, are debatable, and the differences outnumber them.

    They are not "debatable" at all. Jackson and Kelly both DID have their uteri excised, their hearts taken out and their abdominal walls removed in large flaps. That is beyond "debate", thank God!

    What is "debatable" is whether there were dissimilarities, and there MAY have been, but until we can prove it, we are left with guesswork. Like "the torso man almost certainly had another Eason to cut out the uterus from Jackson than the Ripper had in the Kelly case". That kind of guesswork, you know?
    As for similarities/dissimilarities, you have been informed what applies: odd and unusual similarities will take precedence over dissimilarities, no matter how large and many they are. Surely you remember the example I posted ten minutes ago?

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    • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
      I don't think it is. Kelly was practically destroyed, Jackson nowhere near so.
      sorry sam you couldn't be more wrong.

      Jackson had her abdomen ripped open, her baby torn out, her heart and lungs removed, her arms and legs cut off and her head removed. separated and dumped in different areas.


      I think the argument could be made that Jackson was actually more destroyed than Kelly, but its a stupid argument either way, because they both were.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • Two panels of flesh cut out does not make for a ripped abdomen and, severed limbs, decapitation and quartering apart, Jackson's body was unscathed. Her breasts weren't cut off, her intercostal flesh wasn't cut out, her arms weren't hacked, her undercarriage wasn't completely stripped of flesh, the flesh of her thighs and buttocks wasn't sliced away, her femur wasn't exposed, her calf wasn't gashed. Her stomach wasn't split open, her liver, spleen, bladder and kidneys remained in place. Compared to Kelly, and arguably the rest of the Ripper's evisceration victims, what happened to Jackson was positively tame - not so much overkill as "underkill".
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
          Two panels of flesh cut out does not make for a ripped abdomen and, severed limbs, decapitation and quartering apart, Jackson's body was unscathed. Her breasts weren't cut off, her intercostal flesh wasn't cut out, her arms weren't hacked, her undercarriage wasn't completely stripped of flesh, the flesh of her thighs and buttocks wasn't sliced away, her femur wasn't exposed, her calf wasn't gashed. Her stomach wasn't split open, her liver, spleen, bladder and kidneys remained in place. Compared to Kelly, and arguably the rest of the Ripper's evisceration victims, what happened to Jackson was positively tame - not so much overkill as "underkill".
          BUT NOBODY IS COMPARING THE TWO!!! What is said is that BOTH cases are cases of extreme overkill! There is a LOT of unnecessary damage in both cases that goes way beyond what is required to kill.

          You are consistently moving the goalposts. For some reason!

          You also said that Abby could not point to a "pattern", when nobody had said that a pattern would be pointed to. What was said was that LINKS were there between foremost Jackson and Kelly.

          Do NOT move the goalposts, stick with what is said, please!
          And what is this about "severed limbs, decapitation and quartering apart"? Why would we treat that as being "apart"? Did she or did she not suffer that?
          Nobody is saying "apart from X, X, X, X and X, Kelly was just fine.
          Last edited by Fisherman; 12-07-2018, 07:42 AM.

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          • If you want to draw parallels with the Ripper murders, we HAVE to make comparisons by definition.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              If you want to draw parallels with the Ripper murders, we HAVE to make comparisons by definition.
              Yes, and the comparisons are:

              Uteri taken out
              Hearts removed
              Abdominal walls taken away
              Rippings from sternum to groin
              Necks/throats cut
              Prostituted victims
              ... and a few more similarities

              After that, there are differing matters too, but none of them detract from these matters. They stand and they make as close to a watertight case as we can get for a common originator, given the rarity of many of the parameters.

              It seems you are done arguing a case for Jackson not having been the victim of overkill? Progress, I dare say!

              Question: Is "comparisons by definition" your phrasing of "moving goalposts"?
              Last edited by Fisherman; 12-07-2018, 11:03 AM.

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              • has any one read this book yet?

                is there a review of it anywhere?

                unfortunately amazon still has it showing as a pre order only and not being released until june ?!?
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                  has any one read this book yet?

                  is there a review of it anywhere?

                  unfortunately amazon still has it showing as a pre order only and not being released until june ?!?
                  Yeah publication date is June 2019.

                  It's not even showing up on the publishers website (Amberley Press).

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