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Jack and the Thames Torso Murders: A New Ripper?

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  • #61
    as I think McKenzie was a ripper victim-this is a wash for me.
    A reasonable and very valid point,

    Unless of course this Torso murderer was still at large, and thought he/she would try his hand as a (poor) copcat JTR - in which case its all still up in the air.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Boggles View Post
      A reasonable and very valid point,

      Unless of course this Torso murderer was still at large, and thought he/she would try his hand as a (poor) copcat JTR - in which case its all still up in the air.
      well considering that I lean toward torsoman and the ripper being the same man I think McKenzie and then Pinchin were his last victims (that we know about).


      I don't go for copy cat killing idea-in the annals of crime no serial killer has tried to make his work look like another known killers work, let alone another serial killers work. Its Hollywood stuff.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #63
        Well i need to do some swotting up on this torsoman killer before i can comment further. My inital reaction is to have two such brutal serial killers around at the same time and same area is questionable, i wonder if not the same person then were they somehow associated, it wouldnt be the first time.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
          John, don't know if you do facebook, but there is a torso group there.

          Steve
          Who heads it?
          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Harry D View Post
            Most of the other suspects have been exhausted to death. Lechmere, on the other hand, is a relatively new name. Lechmere admittedly has more legs than some of the other names put forward down the years, if only by dint of being in Buck's Row that morning. I still think there's a lot more work to be done before anyone could consider him a legitimate suspect. 'Person of interest' maybe. More to the point, one of the marks against Lechmere is the fact that the second murder occurred while the Nichols' inquest was still ongoing. That would point to someone who wasn't on the police radar, and Lechmere wasn't to know that the police weren't keeping tabs on his movements.
            That's a smart observation, Harry.

            I suppose the counterargument is that a psychopath like Lechmere would have considered it "all in the game" and positively relished the thought of the police watching him day and night and still not cottoning on to what he was doing under their noses because he was just too clever for your average copper.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by caz View Post
              Who heads it?
              Hi Caz,

              Amanda Lloyd, Suzi Huntington and Myself.

              It's not a big group but has a few well known researchers on board.

              It is an area, which has not been fully investigated as we all know, so any input is welcome


              Steve

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                well considering that I lean toward torsoman and the ripper being the same man I think McKenzie and then Pinchin were his last victims (that we know about).

                I don't go for copy cat killing idea-in the annals of crime no serial killer has tried to make his work look like another known killers work, let alone another serial killers work. Its Hollywood stuff.
                I agree that copy cat murder sounds more Hollywood than grim reality, Abby.

                That said, the torso murders [deaths/manslaughters?] don't appear to me to reflect any kind of attempt to copy the way the ripper rolled, so I'm not sure what criteria are being used to argue that the same killer fits all. I look forward to finding out.

                From what I've read to date, the ripper and torso cases seem to me to be entirely independent of one another, not so coincidentally unfolding at a time when we know such series were emerging as a recognisable phenomenon of modern life in 'civilised' societies. Cream anyone? Klosowski?

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                Last edited by caz; 11-14-2018, 06:09 AM.
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                  Hi Caz,

                  Amanda Lloyd, Suzi Huntington and Myself.

                  It's not a big group but has a few well known researchers on board.

                  It is an area, which has not been fully investigated as we all know, so any input is welcome


                  Steve
                  Sorry Steve, it was a poor joke on my part: Torso group - who heads it?

                  I'll get me coat.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by caz View Post
                    Sorry Steve, it was a poor joke on my part: Torso group - who heads it?

                    I'll get me coat.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    It's ok Caz, i am so wrapped up in Bucks Row work, i didn't pick it up.


                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by caz View Post
                      Sorry Steve, it was a poor joke on my part: Torso group - who heads it?

                      I'll get me coat.

                      Love,

                      Caz
                      X
                      The group doesn’t have a head - it’s an anarchist group - but they’re ‘armless (except when they get legless).

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                        It's ok Caz, i am so wrapped up in Bucks Row work, i didn't pick it up.


                        Steve
                        Wake up Steve old chap. Is that Scottish air slowing you down
                        Regards

                        Herlock






                        "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                          Wake up Steve old chap. Is that Scottish air slowing you down
                          Yes the reduction in polluted air is wonderful, means I don't cough all the time.


                          Steve

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by caz View Post
                            I agree that copy cat murder sounds more Hollywood than grim reality, Abby.

                            That said, the torso murders [deaths/manslaughters?] don't appear to me to reflect any kind of attempt to copy the way the ripper rolled, so I'm not sure what criteria are being used to argue that the same killer fits all. I look forward to finding out.

                            From what I've read to date, the ripper and torso cases seem to me to be entirely independent of one another, not so coincidentally unfolding at a time when we know such series were emerging as a recognisable phenomenon of modern life in 'civilised' societies. Cream anyone? Klosowski?

                            Love,

                            Caz
                            X
                            Hi Caz
                            I kind of look at it another way-at this early time when serial killing was just emerging and it was relatively rare-whats the chances that two serial killers-post mortem mutilaters at that- appear at the same time and place? added to that the similarities (and yes there are differences, I just see more similarities) between the two:

                            Same time and place
                            same victimology
                            probable ruse involved to get victims where killer wanted them
                            internal and external parts targeted
                            no Overt attempt to hide
                            no overt sexual activity
                            knife used
                            abdoman targeted with flaps of flesh from stomach area removed

                            and I just see lean to them being the same man.


                            itll be interesting to read this book and get another (non casebook) opinion on it.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              Hi Caz
                              I kind of look at it another way-at this early time when serial killing was just emerging
                              I don't think that serial killing was a new phenomenon at the time. On the contrary, it's probably as old as humankind.
                              abdoman targeted
                              Not the case in the majority of the torso murders; even in those where it happened, there are eminently (and rather obvious) practical reasons why the dismemberer(s) cut open the abdomen.
                              with flaps of flesh from stomach area removed
                              To paraphrase a well-known saying: Diff'rent flaps for diff'rent chaps.
                              Last edited by Sam Flynn; 11-14-2018, 10:39 AM.
                              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                                I don't think that serial killing was a new phenomenon at the time. On the contrary, it's probably as old as humankind.
                                Not the case in the majority of the torso murders; even in those where it happened, there are eminently (and rather obvious) practical reasons why the dismemberer(s) cut open the abdomen.
                                To paraphrase a well-known saying: Diff'rent flaps for diff'rent chaps.
                                I agree. Defensive dismemberers do sometimes remove "flaps of skin". And I think the Torso perpetrator was an offensive/defensive dismemberer.
                                Last edited by John G; 11-14-2018, 12:40 PM.

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