The Missing Evidence - New Ripper Documentary

[Rob Clack]

I think the policemen estimated the time, as is often the case, and that Paul worked from a clock since he is very adamant on the time. It will be a difference of a few minutes only, and if the policemen adjusted to the closest quarter of an hour, they could all be right, just as Mizen could.

Adamant she was dead as well.

But this is not what we are discussing. We are discussing why you say that you rather trust an experienced PC - just like you do with Neil and Thain - but then you distrust an experienced PC when it comes to the scam.

Read the posts between me and Edward. If you can't understand my posts that is down to you. I don't have to explain myself to you.

You claim an important principle to diss a theory and then you abandon it when it points the other way. If you can distrust a PC in that case, then the issue of the timings in Buck´s Row quickly becomes a non-issue.

I diss your theory because it is so bad. You have added nothing new in the last 5 years except to regurgitate the same old nonsense. The fact that in all that time it is still only you and end that continually post about Lechmere.

Did you hear that loud bang?

No, the sound on my computer is turned off.

That was me closing the door behind me.

Til tomorrow!

Fisherman

Don't forget to turn the light out.

[Bridewell]

I think the policemen estimated the time, as is often the case, and that Paul worked from a clock since he is very adamant on the time. It will be a difference of a few minutes only, and if the policemen adjusted to the closest quarter of an hour, they could all be right, just as Mizen could.

I suspect the policemen noted the time from each clock on their beats as they passed them. I would expect their times, therefore, to be accurate to within about 5 minutes. I take the timings of every witness to be approximate (especially where they end in 5 or 10 as so many of them do). The exceptions I would make are where the witness has a specific reason to be more than usually accurate, examples being Cadosch where he passes the Spitalfields Church and Dr Blackwell where he consults his watch and gives an exact time of 1.16am for his arrival at the Stride murder.

[GUT]

I suspect the policemen noted the time from each clock on their beats as they passed them. I would expect their times, therefore, to be accurate to within about 5 minutes. I take the timings of every witness to be approximate (especially where they end in 5 or 10 as so many of them do). The exceptions I would make are where the witness has a specific reason to be more than usually accurate, examples being Cadosch where he passes the Spitalfields Church and Dr Blackwell where he consults his watch and gives an exact time of 1.16am for his arrival at the Stride murder.

That is so true, except even in the case of Dr Blackwell it depends on the accuracy of his watch, including when it was lasts set and wound.

Any hypothesis in this case that relies on timing down to anything less than 10 to 15 mins is bound to failure.

Watches were rare and not particularly accurate, even household clocks weren't great.

Public clocks were there for all to see but depended on the exactitude of those setting them.

We also need to remember that in the pre-digital days if you asked someone the time, the most accurate you would normally get would be to the 5 minutes often to the quarter hour.

[Bridewell]

Every no and then, there´s a breath of fresh air even in the darkest of realms. I want to thank you sincerely for this very graceful and decent approach, Colin, and you are ever so welcome to produce whatever criticism you feel needed tomorrow - I promise that I will do my best to answer whatever quiries you may have. Provided I am still around to do so, that is!

Thanks for allowing me to leave the thread until tomorrow on such a positive note!

All the best,
Fisherman

You're welcome. I don't (yet) share your conviction that Lechmere killed Nichols, but I hope I'm honest enough to watch this with an open mind.

With Regards from The Lord of "The Darkest Of Realms"!

[Bridewell]

That is so true, except even in the case of Dr Blackwell it depends on the accuracy of his watch, including when it was lasts set and wound.

It does although, as he was in a relatively well-paid occupation, I would expect his watch to be more expensive and therefore more accurate than most. It's all guesswork to a greater or lesser degree, but it seems reasonable to conclude that a prosperous man who consults his watch at a crime scene - and gives a time of 1.16am - reposes a degree of confidence in its accuracy.

[GUT]

It does although, as he was in a relatively well-paid occupation, I would expect his watch to be more expensive and therefore more accurate than most. It's all guesswork to a greater or lesser degree, but it seems reasonable to conclude that a prosperous man who consults his watch at a crime scene - and gives a time of 1.16am - reposes a degree of confidence in its accuracy.

I'd take it above all the others anyway.

[Cogidubnus]

That is so true, except even in the case of Dr Blackwell it depends on the accuracy of his watch, including when it was lasts set and wound.

Any hypothesis in this case that relies on timing down to anything less than 10 to 15 mins is bound to failure.

Watches were rare and not particularly accurate, even household clocks weren't great.

Public clocks were there for all to see but depended on the exactitude of those setting them.

We also need to remember that in the pre-digital days if you asked someone the time, the most accurate you would normally get would be to the 5 minutes often to the quarter hour.

Thank you Geoff...it's something I've been (boringly) repeating ever since I joined!

All the best

Dave

[GUT]

Thank you Geoff...it's something I've been (boringly) repeating ever since I joined!

All the best

Dave

G'day Dave

I have a reasonably good collection of watches, ranging in value from a couple of $ to $$$$$$, and in age from about 1900 to yesterday. Additionally my family has had clergy members dating back to about 1625 [so far as I can find so far] and part of their task was the set town clocks, some seem to have taken that task very seriously others less so.

But the thing I keep coming back to is that even in the 60's and 70's if you asked the time it was almost always rounded off, often to the 1/4 hour.

[Lechmere]

Trobert
I am sorry if I insulted you by referring to your favourite tipple by the sobriquet 'Rosie Lee'.

With respect to the East London Advertiser story which you seem to be obsessing over, Sue was interviewed last summer. He obtained the pictures of the relatives at the same time - as you are so interested it was in the Coborn Arms, a pleasant hostelry just off Bow Road, nearly opposite St Clement's (the old City of London Workhouse Hospital). Toppy Hutchinson's lived just down the road at one point.
Now newspapers sometimes engage in sensationalism - indeed the Jack the Ripper murders are sometimes credited with initiating sensationalism in journalism.
Alongside this journalists often recreate conversations and sometimes put words into people's mouths, particularly when they are on good terms with the person and it is essentially harmless.
Of course I am sure Christer would be totally scrupulous in his Swedish reportage.
Sometimes they make errors when they rattle a piece off at the last minute.
I rang Mike while driving down the M2 and A2 using a hands free kit (in case any of our resident rozzers are reading) and told him.some brief details about the program and he was about to leave the office himself - hence the errors

I know you are an impatient fellow but I'm sure you can wait until tomorrow for the details about the meat deliveries.

[Rob Clack]

So basically a lot of old news thrown together.

Something old, nothing new.

Sums up the case against Lechmere.

I will watch the documentary, I need a good laugh.

[Lechmere]

Just so long as you don't spurt tea all over your bedspread.

[GUT]

G'day Fisherman and Lechmere

I really do hope that the documentary goes over well tonight.

[Trevor Marriott]

Sarcasm? Saying that you rather believe an experienced policeman, and then not doing so when it does not fit your thinking is applying double standards. That goes without saying. And without sarcasm.

If you prefer an experienced policemans word to that of a carman, then you have only one choice when it comes to deciding who of Lechmere or Mizen was probably correct - Mizen, the experienced policeman is your choice, since you rather believe such a man. By your own admission.

There is no way out of that.

You claim that I have no problems with the description of Cross as a meat delivery man. Why do you do that? Have I said that I have no problems with it? No. Have I said that I have problems with it? No.

What I have said is that it is not something my own research has turned up, and that we need to see more information before we decide where to stand on the issue. There is information in the documentary that I and Edward have not brought up, it was a process that took shape as we moved along to an extent. People in the crew evaluated it all and arrived at the conclusion that we were probably correct. I am told that "everyone" at Channel 5 think the riddle has been solved.
It was and is an altogether different atmosphere than the one out here, and a very refreshing one at that.

Now I´m out. I very much dislike all the criticism the unseen documentary is subjected to.

Adios,
Fisherman

Channel 5 have a history of churning out Ripper documentaries that contain incorrect material. I bet they kicked themselves when the Edwards story came out and took the shine of this one

Look at it from the public's perspective on all of this, several weeks ago the headlines were Ripper case conclusively solved with Kosminski being named as the killer.

Now the headlines read case solved yet again with Lechmere being named as the killer. Sadly they will not know what we know about all the issue surrounding both stories.

I think both of these stories have done a lot of harm to Ripperology in the eyes of the public.

[GUT]

G'day Trevor

I think both of these stories have done a lot of harm to Ripperology in the eyes of the public.

Whilst neither theory comes anywhere near persuading me at this stage how on earth have this two done any more harm that the dozens that have gone before them and even more that are going to follow as sure as night follows day.

[Rob Clack]

I'll be wearing my ripper bib.