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A Petticoat Parley: Women in Ripperology

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  • #61
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

    There are numerous examples of this kind of thing which in my opinion damage the author’s credibility. Those who raised them were immediately blocked on Twitter, leaving only Trevor with his jokes about lawnmowers and dildos to represent Ripperology.
    No as far as her loyal followers are concerned. They are just lapping it up. Because A 'its a good story' and B it fits in with their white middle class modern perspectives.
    Best Regards,

    Tristan

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

      No as far as her loyal followers are concerned. They are just lapping it up. Because A 'its a good story' and B it fits in with their white middle class modern perspectives.
      I recall that one of her book signings was in a ‘romance’ book shop in LA. Behind the counter was a life-sized carving of a bare-chested native American man. Sexist? Racist? No, good publicity for the book which had been advertised as being about ‘Jack tbe Ripper’s Women’.

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      • #63
        I think this was the LA book store in which it was deemed appropriate to promote The Five.

        ‘Ripped Bodice’? What does that suggest - consensual sex?

        And how does this privileged environment gel with the harsh realities of the Victorian East End?

        https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.r...ice-california

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        • #64
          Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
          Of course, this is all a distraction from a discussion of her feminist integrity. Sorry.
          No, this is totally pertinent to the subject. Instead of welcoming conversation from other feminists within and outside of the field, HR is trying to silence them and other critics so that her theories are the only ones that count. She has been hustling like crazy ever since this book came out, and I’m sure she knows that she could stand to make a lot of money from this. So she’s trying to make herself the High Priestess of Ripperology—not only for the money, but for the ego trip. But she’s really the Phyllis Schlafly of Ripperology.

          Of course, these are only my perceptions and opinions based on what I have seen of her behavior.
          Last edited by Linotte; 10-28-2021, 02:17 PM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

            I recall that one of her book signings was in a ‘romance’ book shop in LA. Behind the counter was a life-sized carving of a bare-chested native American man. Sexist? Racist? No, good publicity for the book which had been advertised as being about ‘Jack tbe Ripper’s Women’.
            Unbelievable!
            Best Regards,

            Tristan

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Linotte View Post

              No, this is totally pertinent to the subject. Instead of welcoming conversation from other feminists within and outside of the field, HR is trying to silence them and other critics so that her theories are the only ones that count. She has been hustling like crazy ever since this book came out, and I’m sure she knows that she could stand to make a lot of money from this. So she’s trying to make herself the High Priestess of Ripperology—not only for the money, but for the ego trip. But she’s really the Phyllis Schlafly of Ripperology.

              Of course, these are only my perceptions and opinions based on what I have seen of her behavior.
              I suspect you are right. She will probably completely disappear the second the cracks start to appear. Just like any good seller of snake oil!
              Best Regards,

              Tristan

              Comment


              • #67
                Oh and just on this. I have no doubt that a certain person is popping onto this site to keep up to date with all that is being said about her and the book.

                So with that in mind, I just wanted to say hi! Nothing personal just please play nice and give respect where respect is due!
                Best Regards,

                Tristan

                Comment


                • #68


                  Does Kate Eddowes need to have been a writer of ballads to deserve our sympathy?

                  She drank to excess, she stole from her employers, she ran away from her anti-Irish Wolverhampton family with an Irishman and took to a tramping lifestyle. As a result of her poor life choices her kids gained experience of the workhouse and prison. Despite their being so poor that John Kelly had to pawn his boots to pay for food, she managed to get roaring drunk and was anxious to be released from a relatively comfortable - certainly safer - cell in Bishopsgate nick to return to the area where she had been arrested for drunkenness. There’s some confusion over whether she did actually spend a night away from Kelly in the Mile End casual ward. If she did, then she was kicked out early for some reason. Sugar-coating all of this and turning her into a sweet-voiced talented musical composer on no factual basis is to do her a disservice in my book. Even though she caused all sorts of grief for her family, she did not deserve to die in the way she did.

                  The impression you get from The Five is that Kate was an exceptional, talented woman who consequently deserves more of our sympathy than if she had been a lesser mortal. Starting from a contemporary comment that Tom Conway hawked pamphlets of some kind, HR creates a fantasy where he and Kate are co-writers of ballads and drops a rather unsubtle hint that Kate was the lyricist behind the Charles Robinson gallows ballad. She tells us the ballad is:

                  ‘... believed to be linked to the pens of Thomas Conway and Kate Eddowes.’

                  And in support of that she says:

                  ‘The perspective of the ballad is interesting. While many authors would probably have written a dramatic account of the killing, or shaped the events into a tale of murderous love, the lyrics instead paint Robinson as a remorseful figure, worthy of pity.’

                  That Conway ever wrote ballads is doubtful. HR takes it a step further by suggesting that Kate was the author of the Robinson ballad. The tone is just too personal and remorseful she suggests. The fact is that the tone and many of the actual words were traditional. Was HR unaware of this? Let’s be charitable and say she probably was. Her being a poor historian/researcher is better than the alternative - an author who knowingly misleads her readership. But however it arose, the fantasy is out there disguised as fact:

                  https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.e...ey-garrett/amp

                  Kate deserves better. If you go along with HR’s thinking, the real flesh and blood Catherine Eddowes wasn’t an interesting enough individual to deserve to be written about.

                  https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...d-a-warning-be










                  Last edited by MrBarnett; 10-29-2021, 02:43 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Where did Lesley Garratt get this idea from?

                    “Despite seemingly having nothing in common with her character, during intensive research Lesley discovered that in fact Catherine was a gifted songwriter who loved to sing her heart out at ribald taverns - and her favourite singing was operatic in style.”

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                    • #70
                      >>Does Kate Eddowes need to have been a writer of ballads to deserve our sympathy?<<

                      Good post Gary, I agree whole heartedly.
                      dustymiller
                      aka drstrange

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                        >>Does Kate Eddowes need to have been a writer of ballads to deserve our sympathy?<<

                        Good post Gary, I agree whole heartedly.
                        Thanks, Dusty. It’s a bit rambling.

                        I bet if any of the 5 (Rob Clack gives us 13 in his recent book) were to walk into the ‘Boddice Ripper’ shop and start browsing the shelves, the police would be called.


                        I’ll now step down from my soap box.



                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                          Where did Lesley Garratt get this idea from?

                          “Despite seemingly having nothing in common with her character, during intensive research Lesley discovered that in fact Catherine was a gifted songwriter who loved to sing her heart out at ribald taverns - and her favourite singing was operatic in style.”
                          Ah, this is a fairly radical, although not new, approach to analysing historical matters where there is a dearth of existing records, leaving an understandable gap in knowledge. This gap can be bridged by making **** up.
                          Thems the Vagaries.....

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Great podcast ladies.
                            Listened once in the morning (yesterday) and again last night.
                            These are not clues, Fred.
                            It is not yarn leading us to the dark heart of this place.
                            They are half-glimpsed imaginings, tangle of shadows.
                            And you and I floundering at them in the ever vainer hope that we might corral them into meaning when we will not.
                            We will not.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

                              Unbelievable!
                              Ok, so some tea with this. This was the Ripped Bodice bookstore in LA, which was dedicated solely to the romance genre and was supposed to be a hang-out spot for romance readers. I remember several authors who were excited when it first opened. It also did a yearly study of diversity in traditionally published romance, but that went bust when it was discovered there was something sketchy with their numbers. So I think they’re persona non grata now.

                              The romance author who led the charge against Trevor Marriott on the day he and HR broke Twitter was Sarah McLean. They went after his books, his covers, you name it. I was the one who actually clarified and had to say, “Trevor Marriott’s opinions are not reflective of mainstream Ripperology’s opinions about the book and its author.”

                              I don’t really know what Romancelandia as a whole thinks of HR right now. I think McLean still thinks she’s the bee’s knees, but I think opinions of her are mixed.

                              Now do I think HR’s book and attitudes have affected Ripper fiction being picked up by regular publishers? Very likely yes. There’s a romance author with quite a following who has a series based around the case, and she couldn’t get anyone to pick it up, even though it should have been a surefire thing given the name. She ended up going indie with it, and then it was picked up by another romance author’s small press, so it all ended up working out for her. I think the last Ripper fiction book put out by the big houses was Stalking Jack the Ripper, and that was YA. So I do think Rubenhold’s work has affected whether or not the big tradpub houses will take Ripper fiction.


                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Hallie Rubenhold is wrong and she knows she's wrong, that's why she avoids engaging with her critics and does everything she can to diminish them. But this isn’t about Hallie Rubenhold, it's about correct historical methodology and historical accuracy. No self-respecting historian omits evidence that’s counter to their argument. No responsible historian edits a source to make it appear to say something it didn’t. These are among the things Rubenhold is accused of having done. No self-respecting historian (or anyone else) should decide whether she did these things or not without establishing the facts. Her fans haven’t done that. One day responsible historians will do it.

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