One-on-One with Andrew Cook

[caz]

Hi Tom,

Are you suggesting that the ripper in my ditty was British?

Why, the blasted cheek of it, you damned foreigner.

Love,

Mr Angry of Coulsdon
X

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Caz, wasn't that ditty by David Bowie Knife?

(British people are adorable for actually saying things like 'he's got a blasted cheek').

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[caz]

All Fall Down

Hi Tom, Rob (House),

Thanks for the kind words about my last post here - much appreciated.

Of course, the Star's cunning plan would have come crashing down had Kidney (or some other man) quickly been identified, arrested and charged with Stride's murder in the wake of Saucy Jacky's double event claim.

What must be considered is that Cook's theory involves a plan to serve up a lone ripper to a newspaper-buying public who would not actually get to hear about Jack the lone bogeyman from 'Boss' until after two more bodies had turned up in one night, to add to the previous three, from Tabram to Chapman.

The only one-off murders this funny little game could have inspired were from Mary Kelly onwards. The dampest, most ineffectual of damp squibs, set off too late to have fooled Diddles with their 'man who never was'. While the Star men were supposedly waiting eagerly for the letter from their invented ripper to reach public eyes and ears, the real thing was already out there merrily ripping up Kate like a pig in the market and cutting her eyes and ears.

There’s a Star man, waiting for next week
He wouldn't like to meet me
And he's got a blasted cheek.
There’s a Star man, waiting to cash in
He’s hoping not to blow it
So I'd better get slashin'.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Perry and all,

The knife Coram found was round tipped, but would not have been the knife used on Stride, so there's absolutely no reason to suspect Stride's killer went out with a sharp knife that had a dulled edge. That doesn't even make sense. So Cook's (or anyone else's) entire argument that a different knife was used on Stride is founded on a myth that arose years ago from a misunderstanding of the inquest, but has been corrected over and over again.

Regarding the idea of a 'canonical three', Dr. Phillips believed that only 3 women could be accurately attributed to one killer (though he didn't discount the possibility of others). He did NOT think Eddowes was one of these three. I believe his three to be Nichols, Chapman, and Kelly.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

On the knife bit, my point was and still is that there is no evidence that precludes a long round tip knife being used on Liz. There is with Kate. Thats all. And, Who says Liz Strides killer went out that night to kill? The murder seems spontaneous and brief. Within the evidence there remains the possibility the knives used in Dutfields and Mitre were not the same. Since its highly unlikely, in my opinion, that Liz Strides evidence indicates or suggests a Ripper style murder, 2 separate knives isnt a problem for me if thats what it was.

I think Phillips may have leaned towards Tabram as the first Tom If I recall, and so... as per the above, she would've been the "3rd".

I start with Annie as the quintessential Ripper victim, and work back and forward from her death as the "marker". One murder like Polly's is unique, a second one almost identical in manner and attack methodologies in 10 days suggests a connection by the killer. Polly appears to have kept her uterus due to the location, which is immediately revised next kill, and the organ theft completed.

I have issues with Kate a bit myself, not the least of which is the plethora of cops within yelling range....open doors in the square, windows facing the murder scene....3 cops a few streets away, I coming and going followed by a second one a minute later....

As with Mary Kelly, the wounds are not the best barometer of who killed them, but the circumstances as they are known do suggest certain non-Ripper elements.

Best regards Tom.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Perry and all,

The knife Coram found was round tipped, but would not have been the knife used on Stride, so there's absolutely no reason to suspect Stride's killer went out with a sharp knife that had a dulled edge. That doesn't even make sense. So Cook's (or anyone else's) entire argument that a different knife was used on Stride is founded on a myth that arose years ago from a misunderstanding of the inquest, but has been corrected over and over again.

Regarding the idea of a 'canonical three', Dr. Phillips believed that only 3 women could be accurately attributed to one killer (though he didn't discount the possibility of others). He did NOT think Eddowes was one of these three. I believe his three to be Nichols, Chapman, and Kelly.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

On some recent posts about the rounded/pointed knife that was likely used on Stride, there is no evidence based on her murder alone that eliminates a rounded tip was used. Since the end of the blade doesnt likely come in to play here anyway for that wound on that victim, that would seem a sensible position.

The pointed-round debate has far more to do with theorizing that Stride and Kate were killed by the same man, and therefore most probably, the same knife....a rounded tip would not have worked with Kate obviously....(see long jagged incision and chevrons for example).

I admit I have not looked through any of the podcast data yet, for the moment Ive been more curious about the reactions to some remarks and positions from the folks here that I do know a bit.

I do like the Canonical 3 concept mentioned in an earlier post.

Best regards all.

[Jeff Leahy]

OK i fibbed

[Cap'n Jack]

And then Andrew met Stewart.

[Natalie Severn]

Thankyou Ap.I am not so sure that Andrew Cook is to be dismissed because you believe he is involved in "crass money making projects".
The book of his I got from the library was excitingly written and greatly helped to situate the British spy "Inspector Melville" ,who became the spy master,in the spiders web of British espionage at the turn of the century.His book helped me to see the possibility too that Tumblety was either a double agent or an "agent provocateur".I was intrigued to say the least and impressed with several of his hypothesis[he didnt exactly say so about Tumblety----you were left to draw your own conclusions but the possibilities became apparent as he dug up evidence of what looked like Tumblety"s insider knowledge and treatment.
Cheers

[Cap'n Jack]

Oh you never offend or upset me Natalie, it is but the cut and thrust of murder most foul... and I am here to represent one simple thing, and that is the pen is mightier than sword, even when crass commercial interest is involved.

[Natalie Severn]

Thankyou Pirate,
The truth is that the press can "guide" people towards thinking night is day and black is white and such is its power of persuasion or suggestion,large swathes of the population can be seen to have been duped from time to time.But I don"t think anyone was duped over Jack the Ripper.He existed all right and in my personal opinion was probably responsible for quite a few MORE deaths than those attributed to him.

[Jeff Leahy]

Actually Nat, I think you have that wrong. As I understand Cook’s book and the TV documentary are claiming “That the invention of a SINGLE killer called Jack the Ripper was an INVENTION of the press”

And as I understand this is what Cook has actually failed to establish.

Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

I appreciate that Cap"n but on the other hand I couldnt help but notice that poor old Stewart,in that nice old fashioned English way of his,had set up a thread,specifically, to discuss ,in a "civilised" fashion, Andrew Cook"s book .But before I could blink,hey presto,I suddenly became aware of all hell being let loose .To tell you the truth I wasnt following it too closely at first,but all of a sudden there was a sort of bat out of hell uproar with your good self leading the revolt!
OK, the pic perhaps has done Cook no favours.But actually it was what happened to poor Mary Kelly,-----as I know you too will be mindful of.We can choose to ignore that but in the end ,after all,it is what Jack was about---because he himself was such a ghastly piece of works,he wanted those women to be likewise---and so I think the idea in this book ,that JtR didnt exist ,is actually going nowhere.
Sorry if I offended you dear Ap,-----but -above all to thine own self be true ---and all that,

[Jeff Leahy]

I remember only one 'Wolf' attacking Stewart, unless you count Pirate Jack, which most of us usually don't.

Dear Evil Ludwig, is there a sheep in your life?

[Cap'n Jack]

I would remind you, Natalie, that I have made my objections to this image known since 1994; and that I have only made my objections known to SPE's influence on this image since May 2009. and that is since he started this thread on Andrew's cookbook.
It is to yourself that I refer in my previous posts, and not SPE.
So defend yourself, and not him.