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Tumblety: The Hidden Truth

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  • Tumblety: The Hidden Truth

    Tumblety: The Hidden Truth interviews author Michael Hawley and researcher Brian Young about the contents of over 600 pages of Saint Louis County legal documents that have been recently discovered which for the first time describes Tumblety traveling with a collection of surgical knives as well as containing further evidence of Francis Tumblety’s hatred of women, particularly prostitutes. Plus, the startling sworn depositions from these early 20th century documents that reveal Tumblety was born with a sexual development disorder that classified him as a hermaphrodite. The new information rewrites what we thought we knew about this most fascinating of Jack the Ripper suspects.

    With Jonathan Menges and Ally Ryder



    Available to stream or download here:

    http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=159



    JM

  • #2
    Originally posted by jmenges View Post
    Tumblety: The Hidden Truth interviews author Michael Hawley and researcher Brian Young about the contents of over 600 pages of Saint Louis County legal documents that have been recently discovered which for the first time describes Tumblety traveling with a collection of surgical knives as well as containing further evidence of Francis Tumblety’s hatred of women, particularly prostitutes. Plus, the startling sworn depositions from these early 20th century documents that reveal Tumblety was born with a sexual development disorder that classified him as a hermaphrodite. The new information rewrites what we thought we knew about this most fascinating of Jack the Ripper suspects.

    With Jonathan Menges and Ally Ryder



    Available to stream or download here:

    http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=159



    JM
    Tumblety was a hermaphrodite? who knew??

    seriously though-fascinating and thanks for posting. He was quite an interesting character that's for sure!
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #3
      A major find. Congratulations!

      It will take me a while to listen to it all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Jonathan..... what an AMAZING job you did with what you had to work with....So sorry that Brian character had a cold!! and that he couldn't make it for round two, but he sucks anyway!!.. Allie was awesome taking his place (ok everyone... I am Brian... just to clarify, I am not bashing him.....)

        Seriously thanks so much for the opportunity and I would be glad to take part in any future shows or discussions, time willing....(on any topic, remember I am not so much just a Tumblety guy )

        I have to add that you handled this new info in a very professional and informed manner, and didn't go for the "exploitation" that so many others would have.. this is why we wanted Rippercast to be the first to know and report on the finds...Thank you again... and fantastic job as always!!

        Brian
        (A.K.A Steadmund Brand)
        "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

        Comment


        • #5
          (Ally would like to interject that during her small portion of it, she was stoned on the Nyquil and battling a terrific cold and she basically was trying to shout over all the fluid in her head the whole time. Wait... what was that you said... yeesh....)

          Let all Oz be agreed;
          I'm Wicked through and through.

          Comment


          • #6
            Looking forward to listening

            steve

            Comment


            • #7
              So a part of what I was saying in the actual podcast got cut for broadcast, possibly due to technical issues and I think it makes my point completely unclear. In the podcast, Mike states to bolster his opinion that Tumblety could be the Ripper that he believes that Tumblety had Narcisisstic Personality Disorder and therefore was like like TEd Bundy who he said had NPD. I had made the point that Ted Bundy was never diagnosed as a NPD, he was diagnosed with Antisocial personality Disorder not a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I then went on to say that generally speaking it was the APDs that ended up as the serial killers not the NPDS. There was a whole section in there that got cut, possibly for technical difficulties but I did feel it was worth mentioning. Because Ted Bundy was not in fact diagnosed as a NPD. So that comparison is not accurate. He was no doubt a person who had narcisisstic traits, which is what I was attempting to allude to with "you can be a narcissist without having NPD". And there is absolutely overlap of the two conditions but Ted Bundy was not in fact diagnosed with NPD. With the cutting of the explanation of the Ted Bundy leading up, I just thought that it sounded really abrupt and kind of out of left field as to what I meant. So I wanted to explain there was a whole bit that apparently got lost in there.

              Let all Oz be agreed;
              I'm Wicked through and through.

              Comment


              • #8
                Good point Ally... and what with Tumblety being dead over 100 years, we will never know for sure if he was NPD, or APD.. or what he may or may not have had. As for Bundy....he was diagnosed APD, however there are people who debate that and do claim he did indeed have NPD and still others who believe he had RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder)...I don't think we can ever know for sure with Bundy either (yes he was at the time diagnosed APD, but that, as we all know could be different if done today..)

                Steadmund Brand
                "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                Comment


                • #9
                  got about a third of the way through it. interesting we have Norris who knew him and said tumblety thought street walkers should be killed and disemboweled a few years before the murders and had knives and surgical equipment. That alone should bump him up a notch because we have motive, afore mentioned MO and that he carried knives. Motive, means and opportunity (as he was there).
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can't open on my iPad, have anew computer arriving, hope I can listen then. But I'm sure most of it will be great.
                    G U T

                    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steadmund Brand View Post
                      Good point Ally... and what with Tumblety being dead over 100 years, we will never know for sure if he was NPD, or APD.. or what he may or may not have had. As for Bundy....he was diagnosed APD, however there are people who debate that and do claim he did indeed have NPD and still others who believe he had RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder)...I don't think we can ever know for sure with Bundy either (yes he was at the time diagnosed APD, but that, as we all know could be different if done today..)

                      Steadmund Brand
                      And people can speculate to their hearts content but as none of these people ever sat with him and did any sort of professional assessment on him we must default to the ones who did. And we certainly can't claim that he was diagnosed with something he wasn't to bolster a claim against a suspect you believe was jack and a diagnosis you believe he had but he wasn't diagnosed with either. (That's the hypothetical 'you' not the literal you. )

                      Let all Oz be agreed;
                      I'm Wicked through and through.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oh, no debate there....that's what I was trying to say...he WAS diagnosed, but people will always debate it...as with everything....but with Tumblety as he wasn't we will never know.....and I know you didn't mean the literal "you"...as you know my take on it....and I can't speak for Mike, but I would assume what he meant was they possibly had the same condition.....not that it matters as these were TOTALLY different kinds of killings if the theory (Mike's) is correct ...

                        As for being on the Nyquil.....what you couldn't share....then I wouldn't have sounded like Vin Diesel in need of a nap ��

                        Steadmund Brand
                        "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi all,

                          I was amazed at how much Jonathan and Ally could pull out in just a couple of hours, while the evidence is in volumes. New info is still being discovered. What is interesting is, I had enough material for a new book even before this opportunity came up, and then these document corroborate everything. We could not get to everything, but 2017 is a good year.

                          Sincerely,

                          Mike
                          The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                          http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I did edit out a mini-discussion of what Ted Bundy was diagnosed as and how it conflicts with Mike using him as a comparison with Tumblety. I thought that Ally's comments still made sense without the Bundy material but if its made Ally's point confusing I apologize. Sorry, Ally.
                            I also cut out a whole thing I said about Bundy too, concerning the suggestion he was raised to believe his mother was his sister and the realization he was misled is deemed a traumatic event that fed his murderous hatred of women, and how that idea (mother=sister) is now looked upon by some Bundy experts as a myth. Just so you all know that the edit wasn't made to make Ally sound crazy.

                            What Robert posted from Joe Chetcuti is possibly the most important fact about these revelations, and something that Mike and Brian both reiterated in the podcast: That these statements were from sworn witnesses who did not know each other, seemingly recalled some of these specific events (like the "disemboweling all night-walkers" comment) without being coached or led, and cross-examined by attorneys. Some, like Norris, admitting to homosexual acts.

                            The only motivation that I can think of to cause all of these witnesses to lie on sworn depositions would be the promise of money. Bribed to give certain false evidence in order to benefit those who were contesting Tumblety's will. So unless and until a researcher can track down whether or not payment was made to these witnesses in order to make up dirt on the good doctor, we should assume that they were all likely telling the truth. That's how I look at it anyway.

                            JM
                            Last edited by jmenges; 05-15-2017, 03:45 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Robert...thank you for posting what Joe wrote

                              The book Mike will be putting out will be a great read (I know because I gave been lucky enough to read quite a bit of it)...and will answer and probably raise many more questions about Dr. T. , and as he said there is so much that wont even make this book (possibly more to come from Mike?). Working with Mike has been a pleasure, and I look forward to more work....As others have said Tumblety is such a fascinating character, and it made me go back to work on a project I have been kicking around on non-ripper aspects of Tumbletys life....hopefully that is something I will complete soon.

                              Steadmund Brand
                              "The truth is what is, and what should be is a fantasy. A terrible, terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago."- Lenny Bruce

                              Comment

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