Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper?

[Michael W Richards]

I think it can be fairly said that of all the witnesses only 2 provide stories in which a Ripper murder might have been taking place at that time....Israel with claimed eye witness testimony, and in the case of sound evidence, Cadosch.

Since its far from clear who killed Liz Stride, and its very probable that the man that killed Polly was the Ripper, who also killed Annie, then you have Albert as the most probable witness to have heard the Ripper.

I dont believe anyone actually saw him just before the act or during.

Cheers

[curious4]

Lawende

Too lazy to look it up before, but yes, Lawende definitely married, and judging by the list of children, Mrs L. was no doubt happy for him to spend the wee small hours at his club!

However as a witness he seems to slide down the list. When giving his statement the police are quoted as saying "You will easily recognise him, then?" and his reply was "Oh no! I only had a short look at him!"

Best wishes,
C4

P.S. Thanks to Chris for the information on Lawende

[curious4]

Unlike Jack?

Hello Damaso,

I think what Schwartz describes is exactly what Jack did in the other killings. Surprise attack, victim thrown to the ground, arrogantly indifferent to the risk of being caught. To me Schwartz is by far the best eyewitness and to my mind he was the recipient of the so-called "threatening letter". There is a reference in the letter to "your wife". Schwarz was married, I don't know whether Lavende was at the time.

Best wishes,

C4

[Damaso Marte]

Hi Lynn,

Another reason why I don't think Stride was a JTR victim was, of course, there was no evidence of strangulation on her, except maybe she was pulled back by her scarf. Also, the knife wound to her neck is considerably different from the others.

And, to get back on topic of the discussion of the forum, I really don't think JTR would have murdered someone with all these witnesses poking around (Schwartz, Pipe-man, not to mention the singing gentlemen in the club next door). When you look at it objectively, the Stride murder looks like adomestic squabble gone horribly wrong.

Then again, Schwartz's description of the assailant strongly resembles the man who was last seen with Kate Eddowes. So, there is that one factor to also take into consideration. However, Schwartz's description is not unique to one specific individual; I am sure there were many men of similar appearance poking around the East End at the time.

What Schwartz describes is so unlike what we believe any of the other Ripper killings to have been like that, in my view, if Schwartz was telling the truth than Stride must be ruled out as a Ripper victim.

[J6123]

Maybe they all saw the killer or maybe none of them did. It is that frustrating.

Interesting that George Hutchinson has more votes than Sarah Lewis. I've always suspected Hutchinson was an attention seeker who dreamed up his suspect, from imagination or past real events or a fusion of both, then injected himself into the investigation with it. But maybe he was telling the truth, and he did see Mary Kelly pick up a well-dressed man, and he just allowed his imagination to fill in lots of gaps.

Personally i think there is a decent chance that Schwartz and Sarah Lewis saw the killer.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

So right you are.

The drawback with Lawende is not only his own reservations about his sighting, but that both Scotland Yard and the City Police writing on internal reports acknowledged their own reservations about his ability as a good witness.
Lawende never saw Eddowes face, did not identify the corpse, but only claimed the clothes shown to him were similar to those worn by the woman in Duke St.

It is very possible that the couple seen by Lawende & Co. were not Eddowes & her killer.

Agreed, but given the timing and proximity of the sighting it is certainly compelling to study.

[Wickerman]

If we are dealing with just one guy, then I'd say Lawende is the best bet. Or rather, maybe some combination of that crew who came out onto that street that night. The whole Stride scenario is so mixed up that it is almost completely useless.

The drawback with Lawende is not only his own reservations about his sighting, but that both Scotland Yard and the City Police writing on internal reports acknowledged their own reservations about his ability as a good witness.
Lawende never saw Eddowes face, did not identify the corpse, but only claimed the clothes shown to him were similar to those worn by the woman in Duke St.

It is very possible that the couple seen by Lawende & Co. were not Eddowes & her killer.

[John Wheat]

Of course we don't know if any of the witnesses even saw Jack any way. And frankly witnesses have been shown time and time again to get things wrong.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

One Ripper, and just one.

If we are dealing with just one guy, then I'd say Lawende is the best bet. Or rather, maybe some combination of that crew who came out onto that street that night. The whole Stride scenario is so mixed up that it is almost completely useless.

[JTRSickert]

Hello JTRS. Thanks.

12.45 perhaps?

Of course, the come back will be, "Was 'Jack' on a schedule?"

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Another reason why I don't think Stride was a JTR victim was, of course, there was no evidence of strangulation on her, except maybe she was pulled back by her scarf. Also, the knife wound to her neck is considerably different from the others.

And, to get back on topic of the discussion of the forum, I really don't think JTR would have murdered someone with all these witnesses poking around (Schwartz, Pipe-man, not to mention the singing gentlemen in the club next door). When you look at it objectively, the Stride murder looks like adomestic squabble gone horribly wrong.

Then again, Schwartz's description of the assailant strongly resembles the man who was last seen with Kate Eddowes. So, there is that one factor to also take into consideration. However, Schwartz's description is not unique to one specific individual; I am sure there were many men of similar appearance poking around the East End at the time.

[lynn cates]

schedule

Hello JTRS. Thanks.

12.45 perhaps?

Of course, the come back will be, "Was 'Jack' on a schedule?"

Cheers.
LC

[JTRSickert]

Hello JTRS. Before midnight?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Sorry, I meant to say shortly after midnight

[curious4]

Would explain a lot also was not a reward offerd after Kelly's murder granting immunity from prosecution for any accomplice that will keep our conspiracy theorist happy.

Hello Pink,

A pardon was offered to anyone involved in the murders, but not actually participating in them, for example someone helping with the getaway, or covering the killer's tracks. (at least this is my interpretation, based on Jack being "posh" and a servant helping him, who risked losing his/her livelihood).

Best wishes,

C4

[Paddy]

Schwartz

My votes on Schwartz.

As for the murder before midnight, its possible Liz was murdered out of anger.
If it was Jack receiving a refusal from Liz earlier (No not tonight, some other night) he may have been annoyed believing she was working that night and had lied to him.
Police seemed convinced that Elizabeth Stride was a JTR victim, they must have had there reasons.

Pat.............................

[DVV]

If you consider Stride a Ripper victim, then you have to vote Schwartz. And that's what I did.