Prater/Lewis/Hutchinson/Cox

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleetwood,

I can see him getting pleasure out of her doing this, knowing all the time he's going to kill her.

Hi Celesta....

Possibly.

The big question for me is that were we to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he went for sex - then would he hang around listening to her singing for over an hour? I suppose because he had beer in his hand he was anticipating being there for longer than 10 minutes. But let's say she stopped singing at one - they had sex. That places him there for at least an hour and a half. Believable assuming his motive for being there was sex?

[Celesta]

Hi Fleet,

Assuming he was not JTR, he might have wanted companionship for awhile, a congenial drinking buddy, as well as sex. It wouldn't be the first time, surely, a man might pay for that.

If he was her killer, then he might have been doing as I said before. Building his anticipation, prolonging it, before he killed her. It's a chilling thought.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleet,

Assuming he was not JTR, he might have wanted companionship for awhile, a congenial drinking buddy, as well as sex. It wouldn't be the first time, surely, a man might pay for that.

If he was her killer, then he might have been doing as I said before. Building his anticipation, prolonging it, before he killed her. It's a chilling thought.

Hi Celesta.....

Yes absolutely. Could have stayed/could have left - but in the room which is about as good as it gets in terms of known evidence.

There's a half decent chance he was the killer - but still a better bet than Hutchinson.

[Celesta]

What keeps him on my personal radar, Fleet, is that nobody saw him leave. I know that doesn't mean a great deal. Obviously, he could have left at any time with no one seeing. Still one can hope...

[Observer]

Regarding Lawende, Harris, Levy, Fleetwood Mac posted

Hi Observer....

a) It could quite easily be speculated that the 3 men didn't see that which they claimed to see - and made it up or changed the details for whatever reason you or I wish to imagine. Ditto Hutchinson.

Regarding Blotchy as a suspect

All roads lead to Blotchy.

Thats providing Mary Ann Cox was telling the truth Mac, and Blotchy was a flesh and blood reality.

Observer

[DVV]

Hi Fleetwood,

I can see him getting pleasure out of her doing this, knowing all the time he's going to kill her.

Cel, my dear Cel, that's absolutely nightmarish...
It's 3:27 now in Provence...how can I sleep ?

Amitiés, stupeur, tremblements,
David

[Celesta]

White Zinfindel or brandy, David, or a reasonable substitute. Sorry for the nightmare!

Seriously, I can see him urging her to sing, playing his 'funny little game.' It would likely be a new experience for him, since, to our knowledge, he's never killed a victim in a flat before. He can afford to take his time, so why not?


Too many bad movies, you think?

[DVV]

That's a reasonable assumption to me, Cel.
Blotchy is a very good suspect, and will ever be.

I was chased by a quart can of beer all night.

Amitiés,
David

[Fleetwood Mac]

What keeps him on my personal radar, Fleet, is that nobody saw him leave. I know that doesn't mean a great deal. Obviously, he could have left at any time with no one seeing. Still one can hope...

Hi Celesta...

Well...in terms of was he the killer? It's of some value but not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination.

But......in terms of his rank among the known suspects?......it puts him right up there.....because no amount of people hanging around outside.....or perceived dubious statements.....or bullies living next door but one.....there's no substitute for a man seeing going in on the night of the murder and not seen coming out. Surely that's just reasonable?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Thats providing Mary Ann Cox was telling the truth Mac, and Blotchy was a flesh and blood reality.

Observer

Granted.

So what logic are we going to evenly apply to all witnesses in the interests of parity?

a) Got the wrong night?

b) Attention seeking fantasist?

c) Covering for someone?

I'll go with those. Now if you can post something probable to suggest she conforms to one of the above then I'll go with you. But if you can't....then logic dictates that if we don't believe her then we can't believe anyone....which would render this whole gig an utter waste of time.

Objective logic mate.....rather than fitting the possible around a favoured suspect.

[Fleetwood Mac]

White Zinfindel or brandy, David, or a reasonable substitute. Sorry for the nightmare!

Seriously, I can see him urging her to sing, playing his 'funny little game.' It would likely be a new experience for him, since, to our knowledge, he's never killed a victim in a flat before. He can afford to take his time, so why not?


Too many bad movies, you think?

Deserves a thread of its own Celesta....how do people imagine his demeanour? See...I'd have him down as relatively sober and stealthy and serious....rather than a half-cut poor man's dance-hall act....but then that's just my perception based on no evidence whatsoever!

[Celesta]

Hi Celesta...

Well...in terms of was he the killer? It's of some value but not conclusive by any stretch of the imagination.

But......in terms of his rank among the known suspects?......it puts him right up there.....because no amount of people hanging around outside.....or perceived dubious statements.....or bullies living next door but one.....there's no substitute for a man seeing going in on the night of the murder and not seen coming out. Surely that's just reasonable?

It's reasonable to me, Fleetwood. No one came forth to say they saw him leave, or that they saw her leave. No reports for Mary after 1:30. Basically, we have Hutch, whom many don't want to believe, and we have Cox's observations. Cox may have been estimating the time mostly, and it was a devilish night weatherwise due to the rain and the cold, so she was at least distracted by that. Then of course, Liz Prater, who seems doubtful to me because she changed her tale.

[Hunter]

If I recall, Mrs. Prater was none the worse for wear that night herself... had to get up the next morning for a bit of "the hair of the dog" down at the local pub, and then went back to sleep.

[Observer]

Hi Macca

So what logic are we going to evenly apply to all witnesses in the interests of parity?

How about common sense? I think you'd find that using common sense most people would realise that Lawende, Harris and Levy were in actual fact telling the truth. Cox probably was, as were Prater and Lewis. Hutchinson in my honest opinion was not.

Observer

[DVV]

Hi Macca



How about common sense? I think you'd find that using common sense most people would realise that Lawende, Harris and Levy were in actual fact telling the truth. Cox probably was, as were Prater and Lewis. Hutchinson in my honest opinion was not.

Observer

Indeed, Observer,

honesty and hutchinson are two different things.

Amitiés,
David