Elizabeth Prater

[Chava]

Where was the staircase leading to the upstairs rooms? That might make some difference to the location of the 'front' and 'back' rooms. As for the inconsistent numbering, I wonder if Millers Court would have even had a '#13' after the murder. I can see that room being renumbered in order to make it rentable again.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Stan,

If you've ever lived in an apartment as I have, you know that you can't hear the people below you nearly as well as you can hear those above.

But if all that separated you were a thin partition, a stairwell and 9 feet of landing, a scream would have been perfectly audible, albeit ever so slightly muted.

I'm currently sitting upstairs behind a relatively thick modern door, and the living room is over 10 feet away down the stairs, behind two more doors. If someone (God forbid) were to scream down there right now, I'd not only hear it, but I'd be down those stairs like a shot.

[Suzi]

Exactly! I had a Russian friend who said of his apartment...'The Walls were so thin.....you could hear the man next door changing his mind!'...More than likely true and the floors of the 'balcony' were like Maltesers from Concrete cancer!!!

Hubby says when he was in Northern Ireland in the 80's he could hear the person in the portacabin next door reading the paper....well turning the pages!!!.......scary thought!

Kate Marshall's fascinating though.........thanks for that

[sdreid]

If you've ever lived in an apartment as I have, you know that you can't hear the people below you nearly as well as you can hear those above.

[Suzi]

Hi Stephen
Great post there from the sworn statement of Kate Marshall...I particularly liked the image of 'living with the deceased woman ,Mr Roberts and one child as whipmakers'..!.By the way following some research......well getting the Chambers out!!!....a half -quartern of rum is an eighth of a pint....so that a pint of ale for 6d sounds a tad pricey to me!...even at 1899 prices!!

Incidently.... There is the recurring image of the 'child' somewhere in Millers Ct.....in 1888...this has always fascinated me...I'm sure 'he/she/it' wasn't living with Mary- but a child could just have a) been dropped in or b) been dropped off (abandoned) or just wandered in maybe......

..*.Andrew Lloyd- Webber may be interested if we could get hold of him though!!!

Suzixx

(It's GOT to be Jodie re above comment!)*

[Stephen Thomas]

If she did live at #20 and that one sketch is correct then she really didn't live near Kelly at all.

Hi Stan

Not really. In the Old Bailey transcript of the January 1899 trial of Kate Marshall for killing her sister, the guy living in #20 says that Marshall's door at #19 was only 9 foot from his.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18990109-124-offence-1&div=t18990109-124#highlight

[Rob Clack]

Hi Debs, Gareth,

Yeah, that's right we were talking about this Buckley person before. I think he had been with McCarthy for about 10 years.
Strangely the 1891 census lists 16 people at 27 and 5 of those could be lodgers, and only 2 residents at #26.
The Millers Court census returns only lists #2 to #13.

Rob

[Sam Flynn]

regarding the numbering of the court, was #13 numbered because it was the 13th house in Miller's Court, or was the numbering carrying on the sequence in #26?

According to the Telegraph, Debs, there were 7 rooms on the upper floors of #26. Given that we know room numbers 19 and 20 existed - somewhere! - on those upper floors, it's almost certain that #13 was a continuation of the numbering in Miller's Court, going clockwise from number 1 (Venturney's room, first on the left through archway).

[Debra A]

Thanks Rob, you've been colouring in again I see. (first prize again I think!)

I think the McCarthy's did have lodgers at #27, Henry Buckley, the guy who stabbed a man in the leg did live there didn't he? I don't know if it was because he worked for McCarthy though.

Sam, I'm glad you were thinking about what I said anyway, I was contemplating a public grump nearly then!

regarding the numbering of the court, was #13 numbered because it was the 13th house in Miller's Court, or was the numbering carrying on the sequence in #26?

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

The rooms in the cottages up the left side of Millers Court were numbered 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, and down the right side 7/8, 9/10, 11/12. MJK lived in 13.

According to an 1878 Metropolitan Board of Works report into schoolroom overcrowding, the downstairs room of cottage No. 6 [11/12] was 12 x 12 x 8[h].

"The Inspector, Mr. Wrack, on visiting the houses in Miller's-court, Dorset-street, Spitalfields, on the 11th September, found that the ground-floor room of No. 6, was used as a school-room during the day and as a sleeping-room at night."

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Didn't all the McCarthy clan live at 27?

That's an interesting question - I honestly don't think we know. It was a large(ish) house and I can imagine that, if #27 had any spare rooms, then McCarthy may have sought to extract profit from them in the form of sublets. This was, after all, a model we've seen in operation elsewhere in the district at that time - 29 Hanbury Street being the most obvious.

[sdreid]

If she did live at #20 and that one sketch is correct then she really didn't live near Kelly at all.

Where was Diddles' litter box?

[Rob Clack]

Hi Gareth,

The Keylers were #2 Millers Court and Julia Venturney #1 which if I remember correctly was the same dwelling, the first on the left though the Court. It does abutt onto 27 Dorset Street but couldn't be accessed from 27 and had it's own door.
Didn't all the McCarthy clan live at 27?

Rob

[Sam Flynn]

To confirm what Debs has said, here's the Goads Plan from 1890. It clearly shows the window above the Millers Court arch belonged to #27 and not #26

Hi Rob,

That's true - however, weren't the rooms of the Keylers', Julia Venturney etc a continuation of the back of #27? Note that this doesn't stop them being part of "Miller's Court" - only that they were nearer to the #27 side than that of #26.

Debs - I thought your point about the length of the room (if extended to the end of the archway) was a good one, even though I'm still trying to work out precisely why

[Rob Clack]

To confirm what Debs has said, here's the Goads Plan from 1890. It clearly shows the window above the Millers Court arch belonged to #27 and not #26



and this is from The Bristol Mercury 13 November 1888.



Rob