The perfect witness who won't testify

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  • RivkahChaya
    replied
    Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
    ...Clearly they had something, and this something was cemented by the ID.

    As ever with murder investigations, there is always one factor that clinches it and in this case it was the witness's evidence.
    ...

    There are some pieces of the jigsaw missing, but then there would be as no one sat down to record the event in great detail. I'm amazed that posters go on to turn this into a 'must have been confused' scenario.
    My problem is, that the way it's phrased, it's not the last piece of the puzzle, it's the whole picture; it's not the cement that holds everything together, it's everything, period. No ID, no case whatsoever; positive ID? perfect case, slam-dunk conviction.

    Now, maybe the problem is just the way later reporters (by reporter, I mean anyone repeating second-hand information; I don't just mean professional journalists) are stating it, and the witness's ID was never really the entire case, and the reason the witness wasn't pressed was not so much his reluctance, but the fact that Kosminski was already off the streets. But can you see how just stating it that way introduces legendary elements into it? It becomes the magic weapon that is just out of reach.

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  • Stephen Thomas
    replied
    Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
    "Christian Home" is in upper case and quotes, in the original police report. The report indicates they met there.

    Hello Lynn

    If it's not imposing on you too much, what does this report actually say?

    Leave a comment:


  • Fleetwood Mac
    replied
    Originally posted by RivkahChaya View Post

    It sounds like a strange story to me, because I wonder first what one person could have seen that all on its own made a compelling case, and without it, there was no case at all.
    There must have been some sort of case. The alternative is that they plucked out Kosminski simply because he was Jewish and lived in the area, and by some freak of nature they plucked out the one person who could have been ID'd. That would have been an extraordinary slice of luck.

    Clearly they had something, and this something was cemented by the ID.

    As ever with murder investigations, there is always one factor that clinches it and in this case it was the witness's evidence.

    Originally posted by RivkahChaya View Post

    What do other people think?
    I think it's perfectly plausible.

    There are some pieces of the jigsaw missing, but then there would be as no one sat down to record the event in great detail. I'm amazed that posters go on to turn this into a 'must have been confused' scenario.

    The only thing that's not right about it is that Aaron Kosminski was dead - but then Swanson didn't write such a thing.

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    "Christian Home"

    Hello Rivkah, Errata. "Christian Home" is in upper case and quotes, in the original police report. The report indicates they met there.

    Cheers.
    LC

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  • Wickerman
    replied
    Originally posted by RivkahChaya View Post
    Does "Christian" home imply that a Jew couldn't possibly seek help there?
    Doesn't the name of a Home generally reflect the principal financier or benefactor for the Home, assuming it is not a profit making enterprise?
    Like a Christian Home might be financed by some Christian Charity, perhaps.
    Open to all I would think.

    Regards, Jon S.

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  • RivkahChaya
    replied
    Originally posted by Errata View Post
    Is it possible that when he said a Christian home, he meant the home of a Christian, perhaps a mutual friend of both parties? I think most people would be astonished at what happens in a "curbside consult" which is where you stop a doctor you know on the street or in the mall and start asking about a funny mole or whatever. ...
    I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if this poor Lowenstein got cornered at a dinner party by someone wanting medical advice. It happens all the time.
    I know, right? I was an Army mechanic 15 years ago, and people stop me to ask what is wrong with their cars, and then describe the thing it's doing, or the noise it's making. Then, they want to know how serious it is, if the car will break down and leave them stranded, and how much it will cost to fix. The idea that costs vary greatly by make, model, and year, and further, that I do not keep a catalogue of such things in my head is a very hard concept for a surprising number of otherwise competent adults. Also, people have the idea that every single auto mechanic in the entire country is out to rip them off by lying to them about what is wrong with their car, and claiming it needs things it doesn't.

    One guy I knew was sure a mechanic was trying to rip him off, because the sound his engine was making was coming from his water pump. The guy swore his car didn't have a water pump. I said, "So, it's air cooled, like a VW Beetle, or something?" He had no idea what I was talking about, but he told me what his car was, and it was something ubiquitous in the US, like a Chevy Cavalier. I told him it had a water pump. He said it didn't need one. I told him his engine would overheat without one. Then he told me, like he was talking to a child, that the same stuff that keeps the car from freezing in the winter, also cools it in the summer.

    I told him he had that exactly backwards, and explained what "antifreeze" does, and that just because it is called a water pump, and not an antifreeze pump, his car still needs one.

    He has regarded me with suspicion since that day.
    Originally posted by Jason View Post
    I was always under the impression that a headstone was placed a year after the death because that is the given time set down for a coffin and its occupants to settle in the earth and therefore when the headstone is set down, it is less likely to move after that point due to subsidence in the grave itself.......but then i again most of what i know has, certainly over time, been proven to be absolute tosh !! ....i am sure someone will correct me on this fact as well !!
    Do all people wait a year? I thought just Jews did. Anyway, the headstone isn't placed directly over the grave, it's placed at least a foot above where the head of the casket is. Otherwise, when graves had double stones, that were already there for one person, just waiting for the death date of the second person, you'd need to move the stone in order to dig the second grave, and I have been to funerals where that isn't necessary.

    Also, modern cemeteries compress the ground mechanically over the grave after filling it in. They don't do it while the family is there, they do it later, then they lay topsoil, and sod, so within a few days, it doesn't look "fresh." I've seen it done, because in college, I was dating a guy who lived near an old cemetery, that had once been on the outside of town, but now was practically downtown, and I used to see this done once in a while.

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  • Jason
    replied
    I was always under the impression that a headstone was placed a year after the death because that is the given time set down for a coffin and its occupants to settle in the earth and therefore when the headstone is set down, it is less likely to move after that point due to subsidence in the grave itself.......but then i again most of what i know has, certainly over time, been proven to be absolute tosh !! ....i am sure someone will correct me on this fact as well !!

    Leave a comment:


  • Errata
    replied
    Is it possible that when he said a Christian home, he meant the home of a Christian, perhaps a mutual friend of both parties? I think most people would be astonished at what happens in a "curbside consult" which is where you stop a doctor you know on the street or in the mall and start asking about a funny mole or whatever. I think 1 out of 5 outings that included my dad were interrupted at some point by someone wanting a medical opinion. And my dad was an OB/GYN, so don't think that didn't get awkward.

    I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if this poor Lowenstein got cornered at a dinner party by someone wanting medical advice. It happens all the time.

    Boundaries people, that's all I ask.

    Leave a comment:


  • RivkahChaya
    replied
    Does "Christian" home imply that a Jew couldn't possibly seek help there? Or does it just seem ironic to you? Around here most faith-based charities don't ask you to sign a pledge or anything. In fact, there's a homeless shelter run by a church, in the town where I lived until a couple of years ago, and it was staffed by church volunteers. On Christmas an Easter, my synagogue did the volunteer staffing for them. The Salvation Army will help anyone. One of my (Jewish) best friends in college said her father made a yearly donation to them, because he got stranded without money once, back before cell phones and the internet, when that could happen more easily, and the Salvation Army bought him a bus ticket to his parents' house.

    There are tons of soup kitchens (which in the US is a term for a place that serves free meals, intended for people homeless or in poverty-- they don't just serve soup), in New York, and even though a lot of them are faith-based, they are strategically placed-- you know, every so many blocks, concentrated in the poor areas of the city, rather than competitively, because they are trying to feed people, not earn converts. They don't quiz you on either your faith or your need. There are probably people who go there who could afford to feed themselves, as well as people who are entirely non-religious, but asking questions would scare away the people who really need the service.

    That doesn't mean there aren't places that don't use need as a way to preach to people, but it isn't implied, just because something is church-run. In fact, in my experience, the places that are using need as a way to lure converts usually keep the fact quiet. It wouldn't be in the name, and they wouldn't hit you with it until you had both feet in the door.

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    address

    Hello Colin. Thanks. Very tempting--especially as Julius Lowenheim was described as German-American. But the location was given as Finsbury Square in the police report.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:


  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
    Hello Rivkah. Thanks. The interesting part of the story is that one met the other and heard his story at a "Christian Home" in London. Research is ongoing.

    Cheers.
    LC
    Hi Lynn,

    How about this one?




    Regards, Bridewell.

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    amusing

    Hello Errata. Thanks. That is quite amusing.

    Cheers.
    LC

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  • Errata
    replied
    Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
    Hello Errata. Thanks. If you find out, let me know will you?

    Cheers.
    LC
    I remember, but it isn't useful. "The Ballad Of The Dueling Wirtovskys" was this inside family joke that started with my great uncle Irving. He had one story. Ever. And it was about the people in the cabin next him and my grandfather on the way to America. They never left their cabin, they fought all day, and at night tried to out snore each other. Evidently Irving didn't sleep from Italy to New York. The man would occasionally shout out "I am Wirtovsky! I say it is so!"

    So when an argument got ridiculous, somebody would shout out "I am Wirtovsky! I say it is so!".

    Not useful. But it makes me laugh still. I hadn't thought about it since I was a kid.

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    Christian Home

    Hello Rivkah. Thanks. The interesting part of the story is that one met the other and heard his story at a "Christian Home" in London. Research is ongoing.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:


  • lynn cates
    replied
    posted

    Hello Errata. Thanks. If you find out, let me know will you?

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:

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