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Do we believe Mrs. Fiddymont?

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  • #31
    In population genetics the variation between groups is greater than the variation within groups.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_eRtjgKlt8s
    Bona fide canonical and then some.

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    • #32
      It seems Mrs Fiidymont's place seemed to attract suspicious sorts...

      Echo 10th Nov 1888

      "Another man was also detained during the day at Commercial-street on account of his suspicious movements. A man named Peter Maguire says that about eleven o'clock on Saturday night he was drinking at the public-house kept by Mrs. Fiddymont, in Brushfield-street, which is known as the "Clean House," when he noticed a man talking very earnestly to a young woman. He asked her to accompany him up a neighbouring court, but she refused, and afterwards left the bar. Maguire followed the man, who, noticing this, commenced running. He ran into Spitalfields Market, Maguire following all the while. The man then stopped, went up a court, and took off a pair of gloves he was wearing and put on another pair. By a roundabout route he proceeded into Shoreditch and got into a bus, which Maguire still followed. A policeman was asked by Maguire to stop this bus, but it is said he refused, and Maguire continued his pursuit until he met another constable, who at once stopped the vehicle. The man was inside, bundled up in a corner. Maguire explained his suspicions, and the man was taken to Commercial-street Station, where he was detained pending inquiries. These are only two evidences - and there are many others - that in the present state of public excitement in the Whitechapel district the safety - or at any rate the liberty- of no man who acts in the least degree incautiously is safe."

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      • #33
        Hi. Joshua,

        Interesting detail about the man removing his gloves and putting on another pair... I wonder if the first pair had blood on them?
        Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
        ---------------
        Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
        ---------------

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
          Hi. Joshua,

          Interesting detail about the man removing his gloves and putting on another pair... I wonder if the first pair had blood on them?
          Had to be traces of blood. This is 1888, and Britain won't start using fingerprinting until 1905, so he would not have worried about that. It also stands to reason he would not care about the issue of DNA analysis at all before the 1960s (and actually that is a bit too early).

          Jeff

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
            It seems Mrs Fiidymont's place seemed to attract suspicious sorts...

            Echo 10th Nov 1888

            "Another man was also detained during the day at Commercial-street on account of his suspicious movements. A man named Peter Maguire says that about eleven o'clock on Saturday night he was drinking at the public-house kept by Mrs. Fiddymont, in Brushfield-street, which is known as the "Clean House," when he noticed a man talking very earnestly to a young woman. He asked her to accompany him up a neighbouring court, but she refused, and afterwards left the bar. Maguire followed the man, who, noticing this, commenced running. He ran into Spitalfields Market, Maguire following all the while. The man then stopped, went up a court, and took off a pair of gloves he was wearing and put on another pair. By a roundabout route he proceeded into Shoreditch and got into a bus, which Maguire still followed. A policeman was asked by Maguire to stop this bus, but it is said he refused, and Maguire continued his pursuit until he met another constable, who at once stopped the vehicle. The man was inside, bundled up in a corner. Maguire explained his suspicions, and the man was taken to Commercial-street Station, where he was detained pending inquiries. These are only two evidences - and there are many others - that in the present state of public excitement in the Whitechapel district the safety - or at any rate the liberty- of no man who acts in the least degree incautiously is safe."
            Very interesting! Is this story corroborated anywhere else? I love these little tidbits in the press about potential suspects. Wouldn't be surprised if the real killer was hidden in there somewhere.

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            • #36
              Oi Annie!

              Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
              .. and local weirdo Edward McKenna (who wore a skull cap, just like the person who stuck his head around the Ten Bells door at 5am and supposedly called Annie Chapman outside).
              I've never heard the story about someone calling Annie from the Ten Bells before - are there any sources for it?

              Cheers!
              Harry
              aye aye! keep yer 'and on yer pfennig!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Harry the Hawker View Post
                I've never heard the story about someone calling Annie from the Ten Bells before - are there any sources for it?

                Cheers!
                Harry
                Lloyds Weekly 9th Sept is a bit confused about the pub name and location, but contains these two reports;

                "A representative went to the Bell, in Brick-lane, where, as gossip goes, "Dark Annie" was seen with the man supposed to be her murderer. The barmaid said she opened the place at five o'clock, as is customary on a Saturday morning, as Spitalfields market is in the near vicinity. She was too busy almost to notice whom she served. She might have served the woman; indeed she had been told by those who knew her that she had, but she had no recollection of it, and certainly could not say whether the unfortunate creature was accompanied by a man."

                "Mr. E. Waldron, the proprietor of the Three Bells, standing on the corner of Spitalfields market, and which opens early for the convenience of those who bring their goods from the country, was sought out, and one of his assistants was able to state :- "A woman did call in here about five o'clock. She was very poorly dressed, having no bodice to her skirt. She was middle-aged. She just had something to drink, when a man called for her. He just popped his head in the door and retired immediately afterwards. He had on a little skull cap, and was, as far as I could see, without a coat. But he gave me no opportunity of seeing him. I think, however, I should know the face again, and I think I would also know the woman. The description of the woman corresponds to a certain extent, especially with regard to age, hair, and clothing, with that of the victim of to-day."

                I'm pretty sure there's a story somewhere (can't seem to find it now) where McKenna is arrested but the witnesses failed to identify him either as the man seen with Annie in the one/three/ten Bells, or at Mrs Fiddymont's place.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                  Lloyds Weekly 9th Sept is a bit confused about the pub name and location, but contains these two reports;

                  "A representative went to the Bell, in Brick-lane, where, as gossip goes, "Dark Annie" was seen with the man supposed to be her murderer. The barmaid said she opened the place at five o'clock, as is customary on a Saturday morning, as Spitalfields market is in the near vicinity. She was too busy almost to notice whom she served. She might have served the woman; indeed she had been told by those who knew her that she had, but she had no recollection of it, and certainly could not say whether the unfortunate creature was accompanied by a man."

                  "Mr. E. Waldron, the proprietor of the Three Bells, standing on the corner of Spitalfields market, and which opens early for the convenience of those who bring their goods from the country, was sought out, and one of his assistants was able to state :- "A woman did call in here about five o'clock. She was very poorly dressed, having no bodice to her skirt. She was middle-aged. She just had something to drink, when a man called for her. He just popped his head in the door and retired immediately afterwards. He had on a little skull cap, and was, as far as I could see, without a coat. But he gave me no opportunity of seeing him. I think, however, I should know the face again, and I think I would also know the woman. The description of the woman corresponds to a certain extent, especially with regard to age, hair, and clothing, with that of the victim of to-day.".
                  Thanks for posting these, JR

                  I'm pretty sure there's a story somewhere (can't seem to find it now) where McKenna is arrested but the witnesses failed to identify him either as the man seen with Annie in the one/three/ten Bells, or at Mrs Fiddymont's place.
                  Yes, McKenna was taken in for causing a nuisance, I think he may have threatened a Mrs Lloyd with a knife and run off.
                  He matches the description of the chap who stuck his head inside the Ten Bells, and interestingly, like Eddowes, he had just returned from hop picking somewhere in Kent. which leads me to think that when Eddowes is supposed to have said that she knew the identity of the murderer, she could possibly have been referring to him, due to his weird behaviour.

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