Louis Diemschutz

[Tom_Wescott]

Evening News, Oct. 1st, 1888

I hope this answers your question:

'Diemschitz is a Russian Jew, but he speaks English perfectly. He is a man with more intelligence than is usually to be found amongst men of his class, and in every way is a credit to the neighbourhood in which he resides. This may not seem to be a compliment; but we mean it as such, for our informant is, so far as we are able to judge, an honest, truth-speaking man, on whose evidence we feel that we are able to rely.'

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Captain Hook]

We know ... that Winchevsky and Lipsky were names assumed by fellow-immigrants with connections to the Berner Street/Batty Street area.

Hi Gareth,

We also know that Philip Kranz, the editor of the Arbeiter Fraint, was actually called Jacob Rombro. He changed his name on advice from Winchevski in an effort to confuse the ever vigilant Okrana,

Cheers
Eduardo

[Sam Flynn]

The surname Dymshits (also Domshits, Dymashits, Domashitsky, and other similar names) came from the name of the village Domashitsy in the Pinsk region. Most often, the name was common in immigrants from Pinsk... a population census was held every 10 years [...] during which all Jews were given [sur]names, usually either at the place of residence (eg, Vileykin), or [after] one of the parents (eg, Shifrin), [or] on other grounds, such as profession (Shokhet, Resnick).

Incidentally, I posted this in the hope that it might help our census-sleuths out there to track down the elusive Dymshytz (or whatever). Not only from the possible place of origin - Pinsk, Byelorussia, Russia etc - but also because the above suggests to me that he might have adopted a meaningful new surname, such as "Pinski", "Thomas" (after the village, Domashitsy), "Kaufmann" (merchant) or "Kellner" (steward).

There are precedents for this, even within the narrow confines of Ripperology and related cases. We know, for example, that Winchevsky and Lipsky were names assumed by fellow-immigrants with connections to the Berner Street/Batty Street area.

[DVV]

It's possible that he may have spoken broken English, but enough to be understood.

I'll be ever grateful, Sam.
And I mine hit.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

it's been said that many members of the IWAC were Russian-speaking with little comprehension of English. We know Israel Schwartz required an interpreter to give statements to police/press. Does anyone if Diemschutz could speak English?

No mention of a translator is made at the time, whether in press interviews or at the inquest, nor at his later hearing for disorderly behaviour in March 1889 - not that the press would have necessarily reported the presence of a translator. It's possible that, like his co-defendant (Friedmann?) in that case, he may have spoken broken English, but enough to be understood.

[JTRSickert]

it's been said that many members of the IWAC were Russian-speaking with little comprehension of English. We know Israel Schwartz required an interpreter to give statements to police/press. Does anyone know if Diemschutz could speak English?

[Sam Flynn]

With the help of "Google Translate", the above comes out like:

What does the name DYMSHYTS mean?

The surname Dymshits (also Domshits, Dymashits, Domashitsky, and other similar names) came from the name of the village Domashitsy in the Pinsk region. Most often, the name was common in immigrants from Pinsk.

The Russia Empire began [to use] surnames from the late 18th century, after the accession of Russia to the Western Empire [in the areas of] Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic states - after the partition of Poland. Then Catherine II got together with [a] large number of Jews [in the West] who historically had no surnames, but used only the name and patronymic, e.g. "son of Shloime Haimke".

In order to "calculate" [citizen data], as well as organize [military] conscription, a population census was held every 10 years [...] during which all Jews were given [sur]names, usually either at the place of residence (eg, Vileykin), or [after] one of the parents (eg, Shifrin), [or] on other grounds, such as profession (Shokhet, Resnick).

[Sam Flynn]

What does "Dymshitz" mean?

I found this at a site called "toldot.ru". Interesting stuff:

Что значит фамилия ДЫМШЫЦ?

Фамилия Дымшиц (также Домшиц, Дымашиц, Домашицкий, и другие похожие фамилии) произошла от названия деревни Домашицы в Пинской области. Чаще всего, эта фамилия встречается у выходцев из Пинска.

Eвреям Российской империи начали давать фамилии в конце 18-го века, после присоединения к Российской империи западных oбластей Белоруссии, Украины и Прибалтики - после раздела Польши. Тогда Екатерина II получила вместе с западными областями огромное количество евреев, у которых исторически не было фамилий, а только имя и отчество, например "Шлойме сын Хаимке".

Чтобы "посчитать" свих граждан, а также организовать их призыв в армию были введены примерно раз в 10 лет переписи населения. Это и были "ревизские сказки", т.е. перепись населения, во время которой всем евреям были даны фамилии, как правило, либо по месту проживания (например, Вилейкин), либо по имени одного из родителей (например, Шифрин), а также по другим признакам, например, по профессиональному (Шойхет, Резник).

[Robert]

A sweep on dope? Was his nickname "Chimney pot"?

Like, uh....supercalafragilistic, man....

[Tom_Wescott]

Now we know why the windows were cracked.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jon Guy]

You mean to say Diemschutz smoked the good sh*t? I knew those boys were nothing but a bunch of proto-hippies!

I did read that the joint was packed on a Saturday night.

[Tom_Wescott]

You mean to say Diemschutz smoked the good sh*t? I knew those boys were nothing but a bunch of proto-hippies!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

Reflecting on the most common Cyrillic spelling which I found last year - namely, "ДЫМШИЦ" - it struck me that perhaps the name might have originally referred to an occupation. Turns out that "ДЫМ" ("Dym") means "smoke" in Russian, and whilst I could find no direct translation for the particle "ШИЦ" ("$hits"), it's pretty close to "ЩИТ" ("$hit"), which means "to shield, protect or guard" (cognate, oddly enough, with the German "Schutz"). Perhaps, as "smoke-protectors", Louis' ancestors might have been chimney sweeps

Based on the wildcard idea that he might have anglicised his name after settling in the West, I've tried looking for families of "Smokeprotectors" in the census, to no avail.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jon
Frost was the constable summonsed for Assault. The start of the accounts is below:

Chris, I know you are far too polite to have corrected me, it was, of course Sgt Kuerht (spelling ?) that did the translating, P.C. Froest was the P.C. who inquired after John Sanders.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

Though this isn't the thread for it, and leads me to soon start another, the youthfulness of the club members leads me to wonder at how large the membership might have been. I believe the club could hold 200 people or so. I don't remember where I read that, however. Yet, the membership limit, much like health club memberships, could presuppose that many members, because of work and/or travel requirements, would be absent at any given time, and so the membership allotment might have been 3 or 4 times as great. I make the assumption that women weren't included in recruitment numbers. What I'm getting to is that, perhaps the long reach of the club made many young Jewish men at least occasional members. Of course I'm leading toward the disgruntled Jew component of which some certainly wouldn't have been playing with a full deck, or by listening to radical speeches and engaging in hypothetical leftist conversations would have lost a few cards from their decks. Sorry for the long sentences. Must be the German in me or the detestation of choppy, ESL sentences Just to bring it back on track, maybe all the Jewish figures that we encounter in the Ripper saga where occasional members of the club and all knew of each other at the least, including Diemschutz (yeah! I brought it back).

Anyhoo, I think I need to start a thread about this.

Cheers,

Mike