Romford

[Lechmere]

That's one of the problems, but I daren't go through the others.

[kangacaught]

Isn't the problem with Hutch as jtr that if he conjured up the music hall villain description because he feared he'd been clocked why didn't he just leave mjk for another time and find another victim for the night?

[Lechmere]

Doesn't he say he had a good look when they passed him while he was outside the Queens Head which is on the way from Thrawl Street to Miller's Court?

I wouldn't get too hung up about a witness misnaming a street or pub. There were loads of streets and pubs in very close proximity and my guess is a lot of people woiuld only know the names of the main roads or the side turnings where they knew someone. I forget the names of some side roads close to where I live and even pub names.

[miss marple]

Romford or not Hutchinson lied about the location which throws into question his other statement.
Walking up Whitechapel rd into Commercial st yes thats fine, seeing Mary at Thrawl St yes that fits in, BUT seeing Mary with a man at Thrawl St from the light of a pub lamp The Queens Head Two streets away in Fashion street impossible!
SO he needed a light source to give his description some veritas. Maybe he mentioned Ten Bells first then realised it would not go so it was crossed out and he mentioned The Queens Head, but it is rubbish like his statement.
Look at the 1894 map if you cant go there.
Miss Marple

[Lechmere]

Yes - but trouble is you can then get bogged down in what are ultimately unimportant details about lodging houses or how long it takes to walk from Romford to Spitalfields.

[The Grave Maurice]

Ta, Lechmere. Apparently I'll have to spend more time reading the press reports.

[Lechmere]

From St. James Gazette 14 November 1888
Hutchinson’s interview with reporters:
“On Thursday I had been to Romford, in Essex, and I returned from there about two o'clock on Friday morning, having walked all the way. I came down Whitechapel road into Commercial street...
"I was quite sober, not having had anything to drink all day...
“I am able to fix the time, as it was between ten and five minutes to two o'clock as I came by Whitechapel Church.”

[The Grave Maurice]

Sorry, I can't seem to keep up.

[The Grave Maurice]

My memory isn't what it was, Garry. This, I think, is what I remembered. The reference to the Romford Arms is in the final footnote, but I'm still not sure if the pub was called that in 1888.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-cousin.html

P.S. If you could refer me to the relevant newspaper interviews, I'd be grateful.

[Garry Wroe]

Hi Roy.

Before putting yourself to more trouble, you might care to check the Daily News, 14th November, 1888, in which Hutchinson was quoted as stating:-

'On Thursday last I had been to Romford, in Essex, and I returned from there about two o'clock on Friday morning, having walked all the way.'

Fairly unequivocal, wouldn't you say?

Regards,

Garry Wroe.

It was actually this thread, Ken!

[Garry Wroe]

These were statements related by Hutchinson himself in newspaper interviews, Ken. The Romford Arms issue was also discussed last year on a thread to which I posted part of a press report in which Hutchinson stated that he had visited Romford, Essex. It would seem, therefore, that someone wasted a good deal of time and effort composing a dissertation that explored a non-issue.

All the best.

Garry Wroe.

[The Grave Maurice]

In any case Hutchinson walked back down Whitechapel Road passed St Mary’s Church which isn’t on the route from Heneage Street to Commercial Street.
Also Hutchinson said he hadn’t been drinking that day....

Where do you get this from, Lech? I don't know of a source for either of your statements.

[Lechmere]

There was a pub on Heneage Street, just off Brick Lane, called the Romford Arms.
I believe it hasn't been proved that it was in existence under that name in 1888.
In any case Hutchinson walked back down Whitechapel Road passed St Mary’s Church which isn’t on the route from Heneage Street to Commercial Street.
Also Hutchinson said he hadn’t been drinking that day, so he would hardly have meant he had been ‘down the Romford’, rather than been ‘in Romford’.

[The Grave Maurice]

This is ancient news, Roy. It wasn't just "known locally as the Romford" the Romford Arms was, in fact, its former name. See, e.g., this: http://www.fancyapint.com/pubs/pub367.php

Somewhere on this site is a dissertation that discusses the issue, but it's too late to look for it now, and I'm going to bed. 'Night.

[Roy Corduroy]

Bumping up because of what Miss M shared on a Hutchinson thread (here)

Interesting article in this month's Whitechapel Journal by Ian Porter about Hutchinson that calls into question many of the perceived statements made by him. To summarise
Firstly the idea that he had walked back from Romford because he spent all his money . A pub close to Commercial St called the Pride of Spitalfields was known locally as the Romford, so its more likely he had pissed his money down the pub.

"A pub close to Commercial St called the Pride of Spitalfields was known locally as the Romford"

Thank you for that. I don't have the magazine. Can someone who has the article kindly tell me the source material Mr. Porter used for this statement?

Roy