McCarthy/Dieppe

[Herlock Sholmes]

He looks the picture of Victorian respectability. I’d imagine that he was a formidable bloke? Like you I just thought that it’s such an unusual name.

It says that the ‘tv’ Atcheler died in Whitstable, Kent. I can’t recall from reading your research but is there any Kent connection which might increase the possibility of some kind of family link?

[MrBarnett]

Yes, I've stumbled across him a few times when looking for info on knacker Jack. I don't believe he's a direct descendant, but it's not an extremely common name, so their might be some connection.

This is the Jack:

[MrBarnett]

Gary, I bet you’re already aware if this but here it is anyway.

I was at my dads and he’d just watched the Are You Being Served movie. I noticed this bloke in the final credits. Any relation?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0040322/

Yes, I've stumbled across him a few times when looking for info on knacker Jack. I don't believe he's a direct descendant, but it's not an extremely common name, so their might be some connection.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks, Debs. I still have to locate Dennis's precise POB - Halsey Field, Digswell, which a Welwyn local historian I contacted suggested was probably just what it says on the tin, a field owned by a well-known local farming family named Halsey where Brassey's navvies camped.

I'm particularly pleased by the alleged connection to the prize fighter Tom Sayer, who was a protege of the granddaddy of the London horse slaughterers, Jack Atcheler.

Gary, I bet you’re already aware if this but here it is anyway.

I was at my dads and he’d just watched the Are You Being Served movie. I noticed this bloke in the final credits. Any relation?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0040322/

[MrBarnett]

sans doute

Tray bong!

[Scott Nelson]

sans doute

[MrBarnett]

It's a pun on "très bon", n'est-ce pa's?

Sands doubt!

[Sam Flynn]

It's a pun on "très bon", n'est-ce pa's?

[MrBarnett]

So can I, Gary.
The one I posted appeared in something described as:
'A Collection of ballads: chiefly printed in London by Catnach, J. Pitts and others, mostly between 1800 and 1870: but with a few of earlier date and with a few prose broadsides: collected by the Rev. Sabine Baring Gould; with manuscript indexes'
It was attributed to Francis Bros. and Day as Josh said, but no date given for the publication and it was titled 'Tres Bien.'

There are a few examples of 'Tray Bong' and 'Bong zhore' use much earlier in the 1850's in comic and satirical pieces. all relating to the English speaking French.

Thanks, Debs, that's very useful! I was thinking that 'Tray Bong' might have been a local mishearing of what the navvies were saying, but if it was a commonly-used term for the mangling of French pronunciation, then there's even more reason to believe some at least of the Digswell workforce had recently been in France.

[Joshua Rogan]

It was attributed to Francis Bros. and Day as Josh said, but no date given for the publication and it was titled 'Tres Bien.'

Don't listen to me Debs...It may be the same publisher, but it turns out that the one I posted is a completely different song to your one, both with Tray Bong in the title!

[Debra A]

Thanks, Joshua.

I can just imagine a gang of navvies recently returned from a year or so in France using the few bits of French they'd picked up in the local Herts pubs.

So can I, Gary.
The one I posted appeared in something described as:
'A Collection of ballads: chiefly printed in London by Catnach, J. Pitts and others, mostly between 1800 and 1870: but with a few of earlier date and with a few prose broadsides: collected by the Rev. Sabine Baring Gould; with manuscript indexes'
It was attributed to Francis Bros. and Day as Josh said, but no date given for the publication and it was titled 'Tres Bien.'

There are a few examples of 'Tray Bong' and 'Bong zhore' use much earlier in the 1850's in comic and satirical pieces. all relating to the English speaking French.

[MrBarnett]

Published in 1893 I think, and sung by Charlie Chaplin's dad Charles.

http://m.vam.ac.uk/collections/item/...is-day-hunter/

Thanks, Joshua.

I can just imagine a gang of navvies recently returned from a year or so in France using the few bits of French they'd picked up in the local Herts pubs.

[Joshua Rogan]

Published in 1893 I think, and sung by Charlie Chaplin's dad Charles.

http://m.vam.ac.uk/collections/item/...is-day-hunter/

[MrBarnett]

Thanks, Debs. What date was that?

[MrBarnett]

Just noticed I spelt Domesday incorrectly.