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  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Originally posted by miss marple View Post
    It sounds like an accident, there were thousands of accidents involving cabs, horses and carts on London streets, many fatal,crossing the road was a risky business, no rear mirrors, horses could be unpredictable,no traffic lights, and children often played in the road.
    If it was Lechmere then it confirms that he was known as Cross at Pickford's. A significant fact.
    If it was Lechmere all it tells us is that he had some bad luck involved in fatal accident, it doe's not make him a serial killer,anymore that all the cab drivers involved in fatal accidents on the streets of London were serial killers.

    miss marple
    I agree that it sounds like an accident. But it seems the child's father wasn't totally convinced. Pickfords' drivers had a particularly bad rep for reckless driving. Little wonder the boy's father believed the driver was at fault.

    It's interesting that no address is given for the driver, unlike the witnesses etc. An attempt to hide his identity from a vengeful parent perhaps? And if the address was deliberately concealed, why not the name? Using a name that he had once been known by as opposed to the one he was currently known by to his workmates and neighbours might have been an acceptable compromise between using a completely false one and providing evidence that could be used to track him down.

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  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
    Or...

    It is and it's a precedent that somehow supports the theory...
    My suggestion was based on a conversation I recently had with a Lechmerian who thought the discovery could be seen as supporting the theory.

    There has been some research to see if there might be an alternative Charles Cross who might have worked for Pickfords in the 1870s and (from memory) there seemed to be just one who was a carman but whose employer was unknown and who was based south of the River (Lambeth, I think).

    I think there's a fair chance the man in the press report was Charles Lechmere, and the fact could be interpreted to support the Lechmere theory and doesn't necessarily mean he was on Pickfords' books as Cross.

    As for Charles Lechmere of Doveton Street not being one and the same as Charles Cross the witness at Nichols' inquest, I think that's highly unlikely.
    Last edited by MrBarnett; 06-21-2018, 03:41 AM.

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  • miss marple
    replied
    It sounds like an accident, there were thousands of accidents involving cabs, horses and carts on London streets, many fatal,crossing the road was a risky business, no rear mirrors, horses could be unpredictable,no traffic lights, and children often played in the road.
    If it was Lechmere then it confirms that he was known as Cross at Pickford's. A significant fact.
    If it was Lechmere all it tells us is that he had some bad luck involved in fatal accident, it doe's not make him a serial killer,anymore that all the cab drivers involved in fatal accidents on the streets of London were serial killers.

    miss marple

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    One way or another, Thomas Cross seems to have been a bit of a jinx, doesn't he?

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  • GUT
    replied
    Iíve even looking at the Cross family for sometime.

    Unfortunately Iím not as good a family researcher as some here are.

    But..

    Iíve found another Charles Cross, a nephew I think of Thomas, same age as Lechmere, havenít found where he worked but looks like he came to Australia 1890s and became a ......




    Delivery man.


    See my point is I am not 100% convinced that Cross and Lechmere were one and the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • GUT
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
    Or...

    It is and it's a precedent that somehow supports the theory...
    Sorry my post should have said ďif itís not our LechmereĒ.

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  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Originally posted by GUT View Post
    Now...

    It’s not Lechmere.......
    Or...

    It is and it's a precedent that somehow supports the theory...
    Last edited by MrBarnett; 06-20-2018, 03:08 PM.

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  • GUT
    replied
    Now...

    Itís not Lechmere.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Roy Corduroy
    started a topic Our Charles Cross

    Our Charles Cross

    From the Islington Gazette Dec 29th, 1876

    FATAL ACCIDENT

    An inquiry was held on Wednesday, at the Coroner's Court, touching the death of Walter Williams, aged four years, who was run over by a Pickford's van.

    Walter Williams, of 36, Cloudesley-road, a jeweler, and father of the deceased, said on Thursday last he was told that his boy was run over and killed. He made inquiries, and he had reason to blame the driver, believing he had not exercised proper care.

    George Porter, a traveler, said on Thursday, at about four o-clock in the afternoon, he was outside his brother's shop, 3, Elizabeth-terrace, when he witnessed the accident. He saw a Pickford's van going towards Liverpool-road, and he saw deceased and another child about to cross the road. The driver called out, and the witness then saw deceased reel against the near side shaft of the van about two feet from the pavement. The driver tried to pull up but the wheels went over deceased.

    Henrietta Owen, of 100, Aldenham-street said she was in Elizabeth-terrace on the day in question, and saw the child run over. The van was going slowly. One child drew back, but deceased was caught by the wheel.

    Dr. Hindhaugh, of Barnsbury-road, deposed that deceased was brought to his surgery in a dying state. The cause of death was internal injuries and facture of an arm.

    William Warner, of 25, Henry-street, deposed to seeing the accident, and said he heard the driver shout, but the horse was then on the child.

    Charles Cross, carman to Pickford and Co., said he was crossing with his van from Copenhagen-street to Elizabeth-street, when two children seemed to come from behind a trap that was standing on the off-side, all in an instant, running against his horses. He tried to pull up, but found it was impossible.

    The jury expressed the opinion that the driver was not to blame, and they returned a verdict of "Accidental death."

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    Posted by Gary Barnett
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