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Mizen's inquest statement reconstructed

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  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by GUT View Post
    My dad, never wore a watch, he was a truck driver, but knew what time it was within the 1/4 hour range, how well he knew he left home at 5:00 it took an hour to drive to the brewery, knew how long it took to load various combinations, took 15 minutes to drive to the flour mill, how long it took to load each 10 bags of flour, an hour back to home town how long to unload at each location, so no watch, no radio in the truck, no clock in the truck, but if he said it was 4:15 itd be darn close.

    Grandad was a coal miner, no watch underground back then, no sun to go by, think he didnít know when it was smoko, or lunch, or knock off time?
    Great analogy. My own practise, when it was really busy - rushing from job to job - was to note time and place in the back of my pocket book and work from that when completing a fuller entry later in the night.

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  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Hi Bridwell,

    I find it hard to imagine all these people walking around silently muttering 'One-Mississippi, Two-Mississippi . . . ' etc, and staying in perfect synchronisation with one another to the extent that they're all able to declare that a certain event took place at 3.45 am.

    You can't get a Rizla paper between their testimonies.

    I would suggest that 3.45 am was agreed upon after the fact.

    Regards,

    Simon
    I would agree that those who were in a position to confer did exactly that. For the rest who were out and about in the middle of the night, I think that each, even without a watch, would have known approximately what time it was at any given moment. So 3.45am probably encompasses the sequence of events between 3.40-ish and 3.50-ish. Most witnesses in court refer to times as being 'about'. I've no doubt it was much the same in the LVP.

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  • GUT
    replied
    My dad, never wore a watch, he was a truck driver, but knew what time it was within the 1/4 hour range, how well he knew he left home at 5:00 it took an hour to drive to the brewery, knew how long it took to load various combinations, took 15 minutes to drive to the flour mill, how long it took to load each 10 bags of flour, an hour back to home town how long to unload at each location, so no watch, no radio in the truck, no clock in the truck, but if he said it was 4:15 itd be darn close.

    Grandad was a coal miner, no watch underground back then, no sun to go by, think he didnít know when it was smoko, or lunch, or knock off time?

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  • Wickerman
    replied
    Given the number of churches & businesses that had pendulum clocks which chimed, it shouldn't be difficult to be anywhere in the city and have a reasonable idea what the time was at any hour of the day, to within 15 minutes at least.
    Plus, a beat constable will know what the time is at every location on his beat. They were expected to be at given points at certain times, and the inspector was often on his rounds to check on them.

    There might be an issue whether an incident occurred at 3:35 or 3:40, but there should be no issue between 3:30 and 3:45. It's the 15 minutes between that we can debate. And that is the same concern for every hour of the day, unless someone has a watch.

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  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi Bridwell,

    I find it hard to imagine all these people walking around silently muttering 'One-Mississippi, Two-Mississippi . . . ' etc, and staying in perfect synchronisation with one another to the extent that they're all able to declare that a certain event took place at 3.45 am.

    You can't get a Rizla paper between their testimonies.

    I would suggest that 3.45 am was agreed upon after the fact.

    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:


  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Without access to a timepiece, how would the various interested parties in and around Bucks Row have known that the nearest five minutes was 3.45 am?
    I guess by a kind of dead reckoning. You think back to the last time you saw a clock and estimate how long ago that was. How often was anyone's clock or watch checked against anything else? In an era when nobody owned a truly reliable timepiece all timings have to be seen as approximate. For that reason, any suspect theory which relies on exact timings is IMHO doomed from the outset.

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  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Hi Jon,

    Church bells?

    Yes, indeed. We all know how accurate they proved to be with Mrs. Long.

    Regards,

    Simon
    I don't think the brewery clock had church bells.

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  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Hi Jon,

    Church bells?

    Yes, indeed. We all know how accurate they proved to be with Mrs. Long.

    Regards,

    Simon

    Leave a comment:


  • drstrange169
    replied
    >>Without access to a timepiece, how would the various interested parties in and around Bucks Row have known that the nearest five minutes was 3.45 am?<<

    Xmere and Paul were both (loosely) around 5 mins from there setting off point. Whether they had timepieces at home or were "knocked up", they would have been able to gauge the time from their perspective.


    As for Llewellyn, as a doctor, it is not unreasonable to assume would own some kind of timepiece.


    All the policemen involved had beat targets to meet and had a duty to be aware of the approximate time.

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  • Wickerman
    replied
    Church bells?

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  • Simon Wood
    replied
    Without access to a timepiece, how would the various interested parties in and around Bucks Row have known that the nearest five minutes was 3.45 am?

    Leave a comment:


  • Monty
    replied
    As Colin states, policemen rounded times to the nearest 5 minutes, and use the prefix ďapproxĒ as an indicator.

    I mention this in my book. Not that Iím trying to plug that.

    Monty
    😁

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  • Bridewell
    replied
    Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
    Really good work there


    Steve
    Thanks.

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  • Elamarna
    replied
    Really good work there


    Steve

    Leave a comment:


  • Bridewell
    replied
    Chandler actually gives two different times for the same incident -

    in his report dated 8th September he says he learned of the Chapman murder "at 6.10am", but in his inquest testimony he gives the earlier time ("about 2 minutes past 6").

    Leave a comment:

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