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Mizen's inquest statement reconstructed

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  • Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
    Sorry to be a bit late with this. If you were able to look at my old pocket books (long since destroyed sadly) you'd find that a lot of the times entered were rounded to the nearest 5 minutes - I suspect I wasn't alone in this. When Mizen had his conversation with Cross & Paul I imagine that he probably wasn't looking at his watch while he did so (always assuming that he carried one). He certainly couldn't be expected to know (except later) that the time of that conversation might be important. When he later made a record of the conversation he will have recalled that it took place about quarter to four in the morning. It might be instructive (if anyone is really at a loose end!) to go through the various timings given by police officers. Logic would suggest that times ending in 5 or 0 would make up only 20% of the whole - but I'm pretty sure it would be significantly more.
    how very true.

    just more towards my argument against absolute times, and accepting those given by any as being pricise.


    Steve

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    • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
      how very true.

      just more towards my argument against absolute times, and accepting those given by any as being pricise.


      Steve
      The only ones I would accept as being in any way precise are those given by a witness likely to have been in possession of a reliable watch and with a clear reason to note the time at the time

      - e.g. Blackwell, on arriving at the scene of the Stride murder, "I consulted my watch on my arrival and it was 1.16."

      Even that has to take into account the likelihood that every watch and clock in the area was set to a slightly different time to every other.
      Last edited by Bridewell; 09-11-2018, 06:36 AM.
      Regards, Bridewell.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
        The only ones I would accept as being in any way precise are those given by a witness likely to have been in possession of a reliable watch and with a clear reason to note the time at the time

        - e.g. Blackwell, on arriving at the scene of the Stride murder, "I consulted my watch on my arrival and it was 1.16."

        Even that has to take into account that every watch and clock in the area was probably set to a slightly different time to every other.
        Someone after my own heart, at last


        Steve

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        • I've just spent about half an hour looking through my copy of "The Ultimate" at times given by police witnesses in (mainly) inquest testimony and also those given by police surgeons and the like.

          The vast majority alluded to times as being either at or about something ending in '0' or '5'. I don't pretend that the list is exhaustive but the breakdown of what I found was:


          Time ending in:


          0 = 24


          1 = 1


          2 = 2


          3 = 2


          4 = 1


          5 = 13


          6 = 1


          7 = 0


          8 = 2


          9 = 0


          On almost every occasion when a time ending in other that '0' or '5' occurs it is to record that individual's, or someone else's, arrival at a murder scene. The exceptions are Inspector Chandler hearing about the Chapman murder "about 2 minutes past 6" and Halse documenting that he learned of the Eddowes murder "at about 2 minutes to two". Much the same seems to have been the case with the civilian witnesses also.


          I think the evidence that there was approximation in most of the timings given by the various witnesses is overwhelming.
          Last edited by Bridewell; 09-11-2018, 07:35 AM.
          Regards, Bridewell.

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          • Nice one, Bridewell!
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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            • Chandler actually gives two different times for the same incident -

              in his report dated 8th September he says he learned of the Chapman murder "at 6.10am", but in his inquest testimony he gives the earlier time ("about 2 minutes past 6").
              Regards, Bridewell.

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              • Really good work there


                Steve

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                • Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                  Really good work there


                  Steve
                  Thanks.
                  Regards, Bridewell.

                  Comment


                  • As Colin states, policemen rounded times to the nearest 5 minutes, and use the prefix “approx” as an indicator.

                    I mention this in my book. Not that I’m trying to plug that.

                    Monty
                    😁




                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

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                    • Without access to a timepiece, how would the various interested parties in and around Bucks Row have known that the nearest five minutes was 3.45 am?

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                      • Church bells?
                        Regards, Jon S.

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                        • >>Without access to a timepiece, how would the various interested parties in and around Bucks Row have known that the nearest five minutes was 3.45 am?<<

                          Xmere and Paul were both (loosely) around 5 mins from there setting off point. Whether they had timepieces at home or were "knocked up", they would have been able to gauge the time from their perspective.


                          As for Llewellyn, as a doctor, it is not unreasonable to assume would own some kind of timepiece.


                          All the policemen involved had beat targets to meet and had a duty to be aware of the approximate time.
                          dustymiller
                          aka drstrange


                          "Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
                          Fisherman

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                          • Hi Jon,

                            Church bells?

                            Yes, indeed. We all know how accurate they proved to be with Mrs. Long.

                            Regards,

                            Simon

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                            • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                              Hi Jon,

                              Church bells?

                              Yes, indeed. We all know how accurate they proved to be with Mrs. Long.

                              Regards,

                              Simon
                              I don't think the brewery clock had church bells.
                              Regards, Bridewell.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                                Without access to a timepiece, how would the various interested parties in and around Bucks Row have known that the nearest five minutes was 3.45 am?
                                I guess by a kind of dead reckoning. You think back to the last time you saw a clock and estimate how long ago that was. How often was anyone's clock or watch checked against anything else? In an era when nobody owned a truly reliable timepiece all timings have to be seen as approximate. For that reason, any suspect theory which relies on exact timings is IMHO doomed from the outset.
                                Regards, Bridewell.

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