Why Buck's Row?

[David Orsam]

There is evidence that Elizabeth Stride, murdered in Dutfield's Yard, was not Elizabeth Gustaffsdotter from Sweden.

But not sufficiently convincing evidence for you to include in your book?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Herlock,

Forgive a spot of self-publicity, but there is a section in the revised edition of my book which deals with the subject of Annie Chapman possibly being carried into the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

There is evidence that Annie Chapman was carried into the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street.

Hi Simon,

If you are actually considering evidence now, what about the testimony of Amelia Farmer, who, unlike you, actually knew Chapman, and who said of her:

"...she was not very particular what she did to earn a living and at times used to remain out very late at night...the last five years she had been living an irregular life."

What do you think she meant by that?

[John G]

I remember an earlier 'possible' victim in a country lane. She wasn't a prostitute and she survived.

Hi Herlock,

His first known victim was a 14 year old school girl who he attacked down a quiet country lane. All of his six latter victims, two of whom survived, were non- prostitutes. In fact, one of these surviving victims was just 16 years old, and was attacked whilst returning home after buying some cigarettes.

Sutcliffe himself acknowledge that, following the murder of Vera Millwood, "I now realised I had the urge to kill any woman and I thought this would eventually get me caught but I think in my subconscious this is what I really wanted."

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

There is evidence that Annie Chapman was carried into the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street.

There is evidence that Elizabeth Stride, murdered in Dutfield's Yard, was not Elizabeth Gustaffsdotter from Sweden.

But if you want to cling [cuz it's easy] to the JtR/down on prostitutes trope, please be my guest.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

I can't recall anyone at the time thinking that she'd been carried into the yard at Hanbury Street?

This is not 'clinging to a trope.' Even if they weren't full-time prostitutes these were desperately poor women who had almost no other means of support. I can't recall the exact figure but weren't there 80,000 prostitutes in the east end? Prostitution amongst the poorest class of women was rife. It's overwhelmingly likely that at least some of them resorted to prostitution.

I'm not saying that they were killed due to some hatred of prostitutes but it's a possibility. A sexual motive or just a hatred of women in general are also possible motives. Not as exciting as a conspiracy but hey...

[Herlock Sholmes]

I remember an earlier 'possible' victim in a country lane. She wasn't a prostitute and she survived.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Herlock,

There is evidence that Annie Chapman was carried into the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street.

There is evidence that Elizabeth Stride, murdered in Dutfield's Yard, was not Elizabeth Gustaffsdotter from Sweden.

But if you want to cling [cuz it's easy] to the JtR/down on prostitutes trope, please be my guest.

Regards,

Simon

[Herlock Sholmes]

Whether they were soliciting or not, and frankly there's scant evidence for this in most cases, is incidental. They were targeted not because of their profession but because they were vulnerable. Compare, for example, Peter Sutcliffe, who targeted both prostitutes and non-prostitutes.

My memory might be faulty here John but wasn't it only Jayne Macdonald? that wasn't a known prostitute? Didn't the police feel that she had been mistaken for one?

[John G]

I assume then that Annie Chapman was in a strange back yard in the wee small hours discussing the architecture?
Or Polly Nichols saying that she was going to get her doss money in the early hours meant that she was off to a cash machine?
Or Stride, if memory serves, being registered as a prostitute in Sweden. Why would she change her habits when living in a cess-pit like Whitechapel?
Surely it's obvious that these women, along with thousands of others earned money from prostitution out of sheer desperation?
Even if they weren't (or only resorted to prostitution at the they're lowest ebb) the fact that they were out, possibly drunk, in the early hours might lead a killer who hated prostitutes to assume that they were.

Whether they were soliciting or not, and frankly there's scant evidence for this in most cases, is incidental. They were targeted not because of their profession but because they were vulnerable. Compare, for example, Peter Sutcliffe, who targeted both prostitutes and non-prostitutes.

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;426658]

All of the victims belong to this type, with or without being part of a history of crime.

Pierre

That is not the question I asked you Piere.

Why was this type of woman significant to the killer?


Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

I assume then that Annie Chapman was in a strange back yard in the wee small hours discussing the architecture?
Or Polly Nichols saying that she was going to get her doss money in the early hours meant that she was off to a cash machine?
Or Stride, if memory serves, being registered as a prostitute in Sweden. Why would she change her habits when living in a cess-pit like Whitechapel?
Surely it's obvious that these women, along with thousands of others earned money from prostitution out of sheer desperation?
Even if they weren't (or only resorted to prostitution at the they're lowest ebb) the fact that they were out, possibly drunk, in the early hours might lead a killer who hated prostitutes to assume that they were.

[Pierre]

Hi All,

None of the police recognised any the C5 as known prostitutes [although Walter Dew claimed to have known Kelly].

And none of the C5 had rap sheets for soliciting.

Let's start there.

Regards,

Simon

I agree.

Pierre

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

None of the police recognised any the C5 as known prostitutes [although Walter Dew claimed to have known Kelly].

And none of the C5 had rap sheets for soliciting.

Let's start there.

Regards,

Simon

[John G]

Hi Pierre,

We have been told repeatedly that "all of the victims belong to this type," that they were a certain type of woman.

But it doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

That's because it's not true.

[Herlock Sholmes]

How can we know that the fact they they were prositutes wasn't the main reason he targeted them? Why couldn't he have been 'down on whores...?' We surely can't be 100% certain of his motive?