Lawende was silenced

[Columbo]

Hi Columbo
I think the point fish is trying to make is that he used the other name, cross, to keep his more commonly used name, Lechmere, out of the public eye, perhaps to not let his friends, coworkers, family or wife know that he is involved in the murder investigation in any way.

if they had any suspicians or thought there was anything odd about him or his behavior, his name coming out might add fuel to that suspicion and could lead them to perhaps going to the police if they knew or suspected anything nefarious about him.

IF he normally went by Lechmere and IF all his family, friends etc. knew him as Lechmere and IF he had anything to hide, I don't really find it that outrageous an idea.It would allow him to help keep his family/friends out of the loop,while at the same time not flat out lying to the police.

I would be remiss, though, if I didn't add that IMHO he used the name cross with police, because that's what he was known as at work, having started working there when his name was still cross, and the whole discovery of the body and his subsequent information to police was in terms of finding the body on the way to work.

Hi Abby,

My problem is that is alot of IF's. What we don't know for sure is why he was at the inquest to begin with. The simplest, easiest way to avoid this was to disappear. I think somewhere it was written that Paul would recognize Cross at work or something so he felt it necessary to go, but that's really a bit of a stretch. In all probability Lechmere only needed to change his route to work and he might never have seen Paul again, or run across Mizen and Neil for months, and that would've been the end of his involvement with Nichols.

Theoretically he actually screwed himself by going to the inquest because he not only used a different name from which he was known but gave his real address, so the idea he was trying to shield anyone is one that is very weak.

I think he attended the inquest because he was identified during the police investigation and he gave them the name Cross during the interview before being called to the inquest, so if anything he lied to the police before the inquest testimony. They're not going to allow just anyone to walk into an inquest and testify. It just doesn't work that way.

Columbo

[Columbo]

The gates at Dutfields yard swung up all the way onto the walls of the buildings to their sides, so there was no space there for a killer to hide. Personally, I have always believed that the killer was long gone when Diemschitz and his pony arrived.

I donīt know why the Stride killing should speak against Lechmere being the culprit. Of course, there was only the one cut to the neck, but that may owe to the killer having been unsettled before Diemschitz arrived.

The murder as such went down in the exact midst of the many houses where the carman grew up as a kid, and his mother was living in 1 Mary Ann Street at the time, so he had both a comfort zone to work in and a reason to be there. It does not prove that he was, but the mere fact that Lechmere fits all the killings geographically is to me strongly suggestive of a connection.

Hey Fisherman,

Well the Stride thing I was using as an example of the tenacity of people's beliefs in how things had to happen and not taking into account possible other scenarios. Let's face it if Stride was a Ripper victim that was the sloppiest one to ever happen if the witnesses are to be believed.

I've always thought people give Jack too much credit for being smart, simply because he was not "officially" caught (Kosminski anyone?). In my mind I don't picture a very clever man with the calm and coolness of a Ted Bundy, but more of someone who, when the time or opportunity came upon him he killed. I believe he was more lucky then clever and probably his knowledge of the area helped him a great deal, and he had the ability to calm himself quickly after the act was done.

If it was Lechmere I think, given his employment, his killings were opportunistic and he wasn't "on the hunt" so to speak but on a few occasions his job availed him to those moments. In a few cases we of course make the assumption he was stalking since it was outside his usual work hours but he very well could've been out for a walk and the opportunity arose.

I just don't know enough about Lechmere to form an opinion on his abilities or what he was thinking etc. You're much more informed on that subject then I am.

Columbo

[Fisherman]

You may very well be right, we just can't prove it either way. Again I personally think Lechmere is at the top of viable suspects, but in my opinion, some of his actions do require a little forgiveness if they're to be believed.

Case in point is Stride. People for decades have felt the Ripper was hiding behind the gate when she was found. This to me is nonsense because I don't feel the entryway to the yard was wide enough to hide a man behind a gate and get the horse and cart through, but I can't prove it either way. It may very well have happened.

So on some Lechmere actions I'm skeptical behind the suggested reasons he did them but again that's not enough to discount him. It's also not enough to convict him either.

Columbo

The gates at Dutfields yard swung up all the way onto the walls of the buildings to their sides, so there was no space there for a killer to hide. Personally, I have always believed that the killer was long gone when Diemschitz and his pony arrived.

I donīt know why the Stride killing should speak against Lechmere being the culprit. Of course, there was only the one cut to the neck, but that may owe to the killer having been unsettled before Diemschitz arrived.

The murder as such went down in the exact midst of the many houses where the carman grew up as a kid, and his mother was living in 1 Mary Ann Street at the time, so he had both a comfort zone to work in and a reason to be there. It does not prove that he was, but the mere fact that Lechmere fits all the killings geographically is to me strongly suggestive of a connection.

[Abby Normal]

Having said that, and in light of the fact I just said I'm moving on to a different subject, It doesn't clear Lechmere of any wrong doing.

Since we don't have the official inquest papers this is all theory and speculation, but let's say Lechmere purposely used Cross at the inquest. In all due respect to the pro-lechmere crowd, to give a different name and a true address is not really the signs of an intellectual sociopath, simply because it opens him up to suspicion if he is found to be lying. I believe that's been stated before.
To say he did it because he was playing some game with the police or he was hoping to throw them off the trail is hard to take because in order for him to win that game he would have to move from that address, which he didn't.
You absolutely cannot give a false name and true address and expect not to get caught if they decide to investigate you. Why? because if they went to your house and asked your wife for a Charles Cross, and she said she didn't know who Cross was, but we have a Charles Lechmere who lives in the house, the cops are going to stake out that house and find out who is really living there and then they're going to catch you in your lie.
Again, my opinion, I think if we had the investigative papers from the PC's (not the inquest papers) we would find they did track down Cross/Lechmere and knew his address before the inquest. He would have to be on a witness list before the inquest started. I believe that standard operating procedure.
If for some reason he just showed up at the inquest without being interviewed by police or no one knew who he was before his testimony at the inquest then that certainly isn't the mark of an intelligent man, which I believe Lechmere was.
So I think everyone playing this name game is reading way too much into it and should focus on other areas. It's a small piece of the puzzle. An interesting piece no doubt but a small piece.

Columbo

Hi Columbo
I think the point fish is trying to make is that he used the other name, cross, to keep his more commonly used name, Lechmere, out of the public eye, perhaps to not let his friends, coworkers, family or wife know that he is involved in the murder investigation in any way.

if they had any suspicians or thought there was anything odd about him or his behavior, his name coming out might add fuel to that suspicion and could lead them to perhaps going to the police if they knew or suspected anything nefarious about him.

IF he normally went by Lechmere and IF all his family, friends etc. knew him as Lechmere and IF he had anything to hide, I don't really find it that outrageous an idea.It would allow him to help keep his family/friends out of the loop,while at the same time not flat out lying to the police.

I would be remiss, though, if I didn't add that IMHO he used the name cross with police, because that's what he was known as at work, having started working there when his name was still cross, and the whole discovery of the body and his subsequent information to police was in terms of finding the body on the way to work.

[Columbo]

I donīt think panick was ever on the schedule, Columbo. Panick makes you run and yell, and this killer was silent and careful.
The measured steps Mrs Mortimer heard in Berner Street may well have been him.
Nobody heard or saw a running person leaving any of the murder spots.

So panick does not enter my picture of what happened. We are dealing with a cool, composed man, going by the sings of things.

You may very well be right, we just can't prove it either way. Again I personally think Lechmere is at the top of viable suspects, but in my opinion, some of his actions do require a little forgiveness if they're to be believed.

Case in point is Stride. People for decades have felt the Ripper was hiding behind the gate when she was found. This to me is nonsense because I don't feel the entryway to the yard was wide enough to hide a man behind a gate and get the horse and cart through, but I can't prove it either way. It may very well have happened.

So on some Lechmere actions I'm skeptical behind the suggested reasons he did them but again that's not enough to discount him. It's also not enough to convict him either.

Columbo