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Pinchin Street Torso - who did it?

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  • In the Whitehall case, the string tied around the arm had contained blood inside it. it came out as the string was loosened. What could have been the underlying aim of the killer? Why contain the blood inside the arm?

    If the mark on Mary Kellys leg is more of the same, then the same question applies: why put a tourniquet on a lower leg...?

    Can anybody come up with any sort of plausible explanation for it? As of now, I can´t.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
      In the Whitehall case, the string tied around the arm had contained blood inside it. it came out as the string was loosened. What could have been the underlying aim of the killer? Why contain the blood inside the arm?

      If the mark on Mary Kellys leg is more of the same, then the same question applies: why put a tourniquet on a lower leg...?

      Can anybody come up with any sort of plausible explanation for it? As of now, I can´t.
      And which torso had it's right leg preserved? In defiance of logical argument about dismembering for ease of disposal? That always was an odd fact. Why preserve that leg? Not saying it's a link, but?
      Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
        In the Whitehall case, the string tied around the arm had contained blood inside it. it came out as the string was loosened. What could have been the underlying aim of the killer? Why contain the blood inside the arm?

        If the mark on Mary Kellys leg is more of the same, then the same question applies: why put a tourniquet on a lower leg...?

        Can anybody come up with any sort of plausible explanation for it? As of now, I can´t.
        Echo
        12 September 1888


        Dr. Thomas Neville, surgeon of 85, Pimlico-road, and of 128, Sloane-street, subsequently made an examination of the arm. It appears that the limb is the right arm of a female, probably of some 25 or 30 years of age. It has been severed at the shoulder-joint, and has the appearance of having been in the water some two or three days. The cut was not skillfully made, and was such as would be the case had the operation been performed by a person ignorant of the elements of anatomy. Round the arm and above the elbow was a piece of string, tied somewhat tightly, but not sufficiently taut to produce much of an indentation. It is thought not unlikely that by some of those who assume that a tragedy has been committed, that the string may have been employed to prevent the blood oozing through the veins, and so causing a risk of splashing to the person disposing of the severed limb. If this was the intention the artifice was scarcely successful, as when taken from the river there was still some bleeding. Another conjecture is that the string was merely attached for the purpose of easy carriage. At any rate, this was the idea which struck the police-constable, who conveyed the limb to the police-station by means of another piece of string attached to that already round the remains.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

          And which torso had it's right leg preserved? In defiance of logical argument about dismembering for ease of disposal? That always was an odd fact. Why preserve that leg? Not saying it's a link, but?
          The leg in the Whitehall case was somewhat preserved because it was buried. The doctors were explaining the different stages of decomposition in that case. The arm in the water, leg was buried and the torso in the open air.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jerryd View Post

            Echo
            12 September 1888


            Dr. Thomas Neville, surgeon of 85, Pimlico-road, and of 128, Sloane-street, subsequently made an examination of the arm. It appears that the limb is the right arm of a female, probably of some 25 or 30 years of age. It has been severed at the shoulder-joint, and has the appearance of having been in the water some two or three days. The cut was not skillfully made, and was such as would be the case had the operation been performed by a person ignorant of the elements of anatomy. Round the arm and above the elbow was a piece of string, tied somewhat tightly, but not sufficiently taut to produce much of an indentation. It is thought not unlikely that by some of those who assume that a tragedy has been committed, that the string may have been employed to prevent the blood oozing through the veins, and so causing a risk of splashing to the person disposing of the severed limb. If this was the intention the artifice was scarcely successful, as when taken from the river there was still some bleeding. Another conjecture is that the string was merely attached for the purpose of easy carriage. At any rate, this was the idea which struck the police-constable, who conveyed the limb to the police-station by means of another piece of string attached to that already round the remains.
            Great post Jerry. String for carriage? If I was going to carry a severed limb, I probably wouldn't carry it by a piece of string. Concealed, yes.
            Why tourniquet a dead body? The dismember isn't going to get sprayed if the hearts not beating?
            Seems likely the string was post mortem? The dissectionist had an idea with what to do with the body parts, but if the limb was bleeding when found, was the string tied just before dismemberment, or just after?
            Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
              In the Whitehall case, the string tied around the arm had contained blood inside it. it came out as the string was loosened. What could have been the underlying aim of the killer? Why contain the blood inside the arm?

              If the mark on Mary Kellys leg is more of the same, then the same question applies: why put a tourniquet on a lower leg...?

              Can anybody come up with any sort of plausible explanation for it? As of now, I can´t.
              who the heck knows-maybe he was planning on severing the leg of Kelly ? and the tourniquet was to staunch blood flow?
              I don't know just thinking out loud. serial killers especially post mortem types do really weird things for there own weird reasons.

              I always thought that ring around her leg was a garter also
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jerryd View Post

                The leg in the Whitehall case was somewhat preserved because it was buried. The doctors were explaining the different stages of decomposition in that case. The arm in the water, leg was buried and the torso in the open air.
                I think Al was referring to the 1874 torso, no?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                  I think Al was referring to the 1874 torso, no?
                  Yeah, the one with leg attached. Fisherman's mentioned it before.
                  Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                    In the Whitehall case, the string tied around the arm had contained blood inside it. it came out as the string was loosened. What could have been the underlying aim of the killer? Why contain the blood inside the arm?

                    If the mark on Mary Kellys leg is more of the same, then the same question applies: why put a tourniquet on a lower leg...?

                    Can anybody come up with any sort of plausible explanation for it? As of now, I can´t.
                    I believe that the autopy notes from aSoLM mention some newspaper under the string on the arm, suggesting to me that the entire arm was originally wrapped in paper but most had come off in the water.
                    ​​

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                      Yeah, the one with leg attached. Fisherman's mentioned it before.
                      Ah, sorry.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                        I believe that the autopy notes from aSoLM mention some newspaper under the string on the arm, suggesting to me that the entire arm was originally wrapped in paper but most had come off in the water.
                        ​​
                        This is how Hebbert describes the arm, the string and the paper:

                        Ligature: Surrounding the arm six inches above the internal condyle is a piece of string, tightly tied; this string is partly wrapped in paper (newspaper). The mark made by the string is circular, and shows the strands of the ligature. The skin below the string is parchment-like in character, but there is no ecchomysis.

                        The tissues divided by the amputation show no clotting nor ecchomysis. The veins of the limb are full of black fluid blood, which has apparently been kept in by the ligature.


                        Hebbert was aware of the paper, but didn´t hesitate to describe the string as a ligature, designed to keep the blood in the arm. To my mind, this may have been on account of how tightly the string was tied.
                        Last edited by Fisherman; 10-16-2019, 05:48 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                          Why preserve that leg?
                          Well, if the leg still had the buttock attached, perhaps they wanted to preserve it for posteriority.

                          (I'll get me coat...)
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • Interesting to see that Torsoripper is leading the poll. Only a small sample size but are the winds of change beginning to blow?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                              Interesting to see that Torsoripper is leading the poll. Only a small sample size but are the winds of change beginning to blow?
                              There's a lot of wind blows round these parts...
                              Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                                Interesting to see that Torsoripper is leading the poll. Only a small sample size but are the winds of change beginning to blow?
                                That happened years ago, Harry - but change takes time. I fail to see myself how rationally reasoning people could work from the idea of two killers as the more likely one. Those arriving to ripperology without a heavily laden rucksack will be of the same sentiment, methinks. In with the new, out with the old.

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